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Any chance....

Hokiepoke

All-Conference
Jan 9, 2003
1,911
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Greenville, SC
Justin can flip some of the top instate recruits that are committed elsewhere? Not a single one of Rivals' top 15 recruits in the state are committed to VT (or UVa) for that matter. That really burns me. Gamecock fans tell me that their new coach has already flipped four of the top recruits in SC. I'd love to see the same happen in Virginia.
 
0.0% chance
We know our returning coaches can't do it. So, what are the chances a new coach who is not a household name can come in totally cold -- at the last second -- both introduce himself, and flip a kid all in 'one conversation'. Exaggeration, yes, but not by a whole lot.
Ain't gonna happen imo.
 
Many of the in state recruits should have committed to VT instead of where they are going. When I look at the list it makes me wonder what recruiting tactics some of them used to get commitments.
 
Alot of coaching changes going on so it could happen. But I would be suprised.
If Fuentes comes out next year and shows an emphasis on offense, I think recruiting picks up then.
 
Better flip some WRs, we need at least 6 in this class. This year WRs not named Isaiah or Cam accounted for 2 catches for 20 yards.
 
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Makes you wonder where was Beamer's head when he kept coming back the last 3 years. His recruiting had tanked, but I guess he was delusional in thinking he could keep winning with below average talent.
 
It would not hurt to try to get some recruits to "flip". There's nothing to lose. Maybe we could luck out and get 2 or 3. Maybe some will wake up, see the light and realize they should come to VT.
 
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It would not hurt to try to get some recruits to "flip". There's nothing to lose. Maybe we could luck out and get 2 or 3. Maybe some will wake up, see the light and realize they should come to VT.
It's a question of time a matter of art. Do we have time to "waste" on kids who (this late in the game) want to go elsewhere? Of course, nobody knows wh/it's a waste or not until the results are in, but we do have history reminding us the odds are long, very long on flipping a kid. The art of knowing with what kids we actually have a legitimate shot is huge. I'm not sure we've been good at that. The undecided who has shown real interest in us (OV) may be a better target.
 
I think Bud got discouraged by the offense over the years. It's got to be hard to recruit any blue chip to a team that only has a defense. Bud didn't keep an incompetent oc in place for a decade and then go out and hire a guy who had little credentials and was coming off an internship with the national academy of failure to replace him. Beamer's decision making at the time was puzzling to say the least and that manifested when Auburn won the NC the next year. I think Bud has a new fire about him and will recruit his ass off now, having something to pitch besides "come play for me and a great defense" to defensive players and absolutely nothing to pitch to offensive recruits. Wonder what they've been telling the offensive recruits for the past several yrs? Hey we've got the best flavor variety of gatorade. :D
 
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0.0% chance
We know our returning coaches can't do it. So, what are the chances a new coach who is not a household name can come in totally cold -- at the last second -- both introduce himself, and flip a kid all in 'one conversation'. Exaggeration, yes, but not by a whole lot.
Ain't gonna happen imo.

Chances are great exactly because the faces are new and not the old ones. The old ones are seen as those in a failed system and especially on offense. There may be increased chance to flip a recruit or two directly because the faces are new and the old ones are gone.
 
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Chances are great exactly because the faces are new and not the old ones. The old ones are seen as those in a failed system and especially on offense. There may be increased chance to flip a recruit or two directly because the faces are new and the old ones are gone.
We can revisit this first Wed of February. I will stay with 0.0% chance.

It's such a curiosity: our biggest failures were on Offense, and that because of recruiting woes. Our worst recruiters, by far, were on Defense, the place of our greatest successes.

Life is rarely fair, but often odd.
 
IMO it still goes back to who you put into the NFL, our defensive scheme did put Dbs into the league and a few dlinemen and fewer linebackers. Every 4 or 5 star kid believes they are going to play on Sunday.
 
I think Bud got discouraged by the offense over the years. It's got to be hard to recruit any blue chip to a team that only has a defense.
That might hold water if Bud had ever been an elite recruiter. But we all know the truth on that (as does Whit apparently and every other AD with whom Bud interviewed for a HC spot). If anyone has had a reason to be discouraged, it was the coaches bringing in the lion's share of the talent. Good coaching can elevate talent and bad coaching can ruin it, but no amount of great coaching (and we have it on D) can make chicken salad out of chicken @#$%. We saw that this year.
Bud didn't keep an incompetent oc in place for a decade and then go out and hire a guy who had little credentials and was coming off an internship with the national academy of failure to replace him.
The opinion that CBS was incompetent is overstated (at best) & willfully blind (at worst). I share the frustration at our O, but it only takes one bad OLman to completely destroy an offense. Nearly every year of his tenure, we had multiple baaad OLmen. Indifferent guys who stood around watching as QBs went and then wouldn't even offer Sean Glennon a hand, the RG who got destroyed play after play ag LSU and single-handedly forced us to burn TT's shirt, the 350 lb. baloney eater... The list is long and I won't call names. I figure you know the names anyway and likely more than I. We truly fielded some of the worst OL talent anywhere.
When CBS explained poor play with the word, "execution," maybe he should have said, "Half our staff either does not or cannot recruit, and I cannot make up for their unwillingness or inability to help fill our roster with talent."
I think Bud has a new fire about him and will recruit his ass off now, having something to pitch besides "come play for me and a great defense" to defensive players and absolutely nothing to pitch to offensive recruits. Wonder what they've been telling the offensive recruits for the past several yrs? Hey we've got the best flavor variety of gatorade. :D
If, as you suggest, Bud hasn't had fire about him, then, holy crap. Honestly, I doubt that is correct, but if it is, just holy crap. Maybe that would explain the Motu fiasco. Regardless, if he doesn't "recruit his ass off" he needs to go. Regardless of the excuses, he should recruit or scoot. I hope CJF doesn't give him long to prove himself. IMO Bud needs to be in a place where the location and/or tradition recruit for you. He's amazing at VT, but he'd be pure hell on ice with top shelf talent. I worry we'll never get elite classes with him here.

Only recruiting will pay. Only recruiters should stay.
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...but it only takes one bad OLman to completely destroy an offense. Nearly every year of his tenure, we had multiple baaad OLmen. Indifferent guys who stood around watching as QBs went and then wouldn't even offer Sean Glennon a hand, the RG who got destroyed play after play ag LSU and single-handedly forced us to burn TT's shirt, the 350 lb. baloney eater... The list is long and I won't call names.
Does the OC not have a say-so in deciding to make so many offense-wrecking baaad OLmen his starters? Does the OC not have a say-so in recruiting so many offense-wrecking bad OLmen to begin with? Does the OC not have a say-so in getting so many offense-wrecking bad OLmen coached up and performing better?

All of these alleged bad players came and went over the years, but the results never changed (save for one brilliant 5* QB who masked a lot of other problems). At some point in time, you seriously have to stop and look around and realize that maybe it's not an unlucky continuous flow of bad players that is the problem.
 
Does the OC not have a say-so in deciding to make so many offense-wrecking baaad OLmen his starters? Does the OC not have a say-so in recruiting so many offense-wrecking bad OLmen to begin with? Does the OC not have a say-so in getting so many offense-wrecking bad OLmen coached up and performing better?

All of these alleged bad players came and went over the years, but the results never changed (save for one brilliant 5* QB who masked a lot of other problems). At some point in time, you seriously have to stop and look around and realize that maybe it's not an unlucky continuous flow of bad players that is the problem.
Yes, OC has a say so, but who said he didn't? Good response to somebody's post, but not to mine. Nobody ever said it was bad luck, either. It was recruiting failure from a lack of natural talent, skill and/or effort.
 
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We have been weak at recruiting on D for many years. It shows in so many areas. I do agree with many that Bud is an excellent D coach. He has taken many average to below average players and coached them up to perform quite well. It's just that now we have such lower quality in some areas that it looks very bad.
We expect our new coach to come in and win and he just may do that but it will be done with a LB'er corp that is exceptionally weak unless they are hiding somthing from us. It will be done with a D line that is weak at the DE position unless some of the rookies step WAY up.
We do not have a recruiting ace in our midst either.
If nothing is done to shore up our D we could be in for another long season O or no O.
 
Agreed. The new defensive assistant better be a great recruiter as the rest of them are at best average recruiters. Frank's age may have played in not being able to sign top instate talent the last few years, but that was not a problem at FSU with Bowden or at Penn State when Joe Pa overstayed there the last few years. So I don't buy that too much. Gray, Foster, and especially Wiles need to step up or move out. In today's world, coaching alone does not cut it.
 
I think we steal Yulee and another unexpected suprise this year. Next year recruiting blows up as we take back the state of Virginia with a top10 class. Dont count these coaches out.
 
I think we steal Yulee and another unexpected suprise this year. Next year recruiting blows up as we take back the state of Virginia with a top10 class. Dont count these coaches out.
That's a bold prediction for a coach that has never come close to a top 10 class before.
 
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I doubt we ever see top 10 recruiting classes, Blacksburg is a hard draw. However I do foresee top 20 classes and holding our on in Va. If you were a 17 or 18 year kid and FSU offered you 6000 a year compared to 3200 for in state and 3600 for out of state and Fla winters to Blacksburg's just saying. Selling VT's family brand to parents is still important. Some boosters with larger handshakes and new cars would be nice.
 
That's a bold prediction for a coach that has never come close to a top 10 class before.

C'mon hoo, trying to sale memphis football is like trying to sale a turd sandwich. They are all basketball and probably not even the 3rd biggest football program in the state of Tennessee. Not to mention they are sitting dead in the center of SEC country. Not trying to be arrogant but VT should be a much much easier sale for a young coach with his first big gig in a talent rich state with only one in-state rival to beat out. A little bold but not impossible to see a top 10 class next year If Fuentes shows a real interest in offense and shows that hes not afraid to play kids early.
 
C'mon hoo, trying to sale memphis football is like trying to sale a turd sandwich. They are all basketball and probably not even the 3rd biggest football program in the state of Tennessee. Not to mention they are sitting dead in the center of SEC country. Not trying to be arrogant but VT should be a much much easier sale for a young coach with his first big gig in a talent rich state with only one in-state rival to beat out. A little bold but not impossible to see a top 10 class next year If Fuentes shows a real interest in offense and shows that hes not afraid to play kids early.
I would think you see top 25 classes with a Top 10 once in a while.....maybe.
 
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I would settle for CJF being able to push up our recruiting to top 15 classes. I don't recall us ever having had one of those either. If he can start pulling some more of the top talent in Virginia again that might be within reach. I don't have any expectation of top 10 classes.
 
All we need to do is get 3-5 of the top players in Virginia.

Too many good players are leaving state and going to UNC, Tennessee and Ohio State. Plus some go to UVA. We need to stop this.
 
We are going to see in the 20127 class what the quality of our recruiters boils down to. I do not expect any miracles in the 2016 class at this point but would welcome one if it occurred. Lot of unknowns here.
 
All we need to do is get 3-5 of the top players in Virginia.

Too many good players are leaving state and going to UNC, Tennessee and Ohio State. Plus some go to UVA. We need to stop this.
You left out the ones that go to the Criminal Tide
 
I would think you see top 25 classes with a Top 10 once in a while.....maybe.

Not consistant top10 but If Baylor can do it based on Briles system and developement and Kentucky can be top 25 without a winning season yet under Stoops surely VT can hover around top25 with a top10 every so often.
What concerns me a little is what the announcers said during the bowl game that the coach wants "blue collar team players" at VT and isnt going to put up with me first egos. That doesnt sound like most 5stars but we shall see.
 
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What concerns me a little is what the announcers said during the bowl game that the coach wants "blue collar team players" at VT and isnt going to put up with me first egos. That doesnt sound like most 5stars but we shall see.

That would explain why his recruiting classes at Memphis were mostly 2 stars when the few classes before his arrival had a healthy p5 dose of 3 stars. His recruiting class talent average over 4 yrs declined like I've never seen in comparison to the few classes before him.

Before:
2012----11 3stars
2011----17 3stars
2010----15 3stars and 1 4star

After:
2013---- 6 3stars
2014----4 3stars
2015----2 3stars and 1 4star
2016 as of now----2 3stars and 4 total commits. (I'm sure the attrition effect is largely based on his leaving)

I hope Whit has his hand in on some recruiting process implementation and improvement. Not to be negative but the bottom line those last two Memphis teams he's fielded was the ripened players from his predecessor; those teams were nearly as talented as VT's when considering how many 4stars actually do anything at VT or even see the field(I think we've recruited a lot of 4star blue chips who had major injuries in HS; not sure if that was an intentional strategy or not as they are often left for the buzzards by the elite teams). THose last two Memphis teams were probably just as talented as the Baylors and TCUs of the world. I love his xs and os but I am a bit concerned about recruiting overall. He's gotten off to a great start here though.
 
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I have my doubts that Whit will be looking over Fuente's shoulder too much with respect to any aspect of the job including recruiting process. AD's hire and pay HC's to be the experts. His recruiting acumen was the million dollar question with his only experience recruiting as a head coach being at Memphis. Obviously he has a lot of upside from his work at TCU and Memphis on the field, but recruiting was an obvious risk Whit was willing to take. Hopefully it will work out because I haven't heard of many AD's who can have a much impact on recruiting from a process perspective - once it becomes apparent the coach they hired isn't getting the job done. JMO.
 
That would explain why his recruiting classes at Memphis were mostly 2 stars when the few classes before his arrival had a healthy p5 dose of 3 stars. His recruiting class talent average over 4 yrs declined like I've never seen in comparison to the few classes before him.

Before:
2012----11 3stars
2011----17 3stars
2010----15 3stars and 1 4star

After:
2013---- 6 3stars
2014----4 3stars
2015----2 3stars and 1 4star
2016 as of now----2 3stars and 4 total commits. (I'm sure the attrition effect is largely based on his leaving)

I hope Whit has his hand in on some recruiting process implementation and improvement. Not to be negative but the bottom line those last two Memphis teams he's fielded was the ripened players from his predecessor; those teams were nearly as talented as VT's when considering how many 4stars actually do anything at VT or even see the field(I think we've recruited a lot of 4star blue chips who had major injuries in HS; not sure if that was an intentional strategy or not as they are often left for the buzzards by the elite teams). THose last two Memphis teams were probably just as talented as the Baylors and TCUs of the world. I love his xs and os but I am a bit concerned about recruiting overall. He's gotten off to a great start here though.
Sunny you did some homework for this post....good info for sure. It will be interesting to watch his development over the next few years.
 
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