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unCHEATS Got some papers today..

You might be right lee. But we are going to make sure that the NCAA knows that everyone is watching...including some in Congress that vowed to shut the NCAA down if they did not do their job. Lot of outraged schools out there that have put Emmert on notice. The good thing is the COI members have the final say...and they don't work for the NCAA. They are all high level academics at various institutions. They know their professional reputations are on the line as there are many eyes watching what they decide. They know that UNC has committed academic fraud to keep athletes eligible back to the late '80s. UNC even admitted to it in their response to SACS. And they can slam every single program at UNC...including MBB and FB...with the LOIC charge that is in the NOA. Lets see if the fix is in.
 
You might be right lee. But we are going to make sure that the NCAA knows that everyone is watching...including some in Congress that vowed to shut the NCAA down if they did not do their job. Lot of outraged schools out there that have put Emmert on notice. The good thing is the COI members have the final say...and they don't work for the NCAA. They are all high level academics at various institutions. They know their professional reputations are on the line as there are many eyes watching what they decide. They know that UNC has committed academic fraud to keep athletes eligible back to the late '80s. UNC even admitted to it in their response to SACS. And they can slam every single program at UNC...including MBB and FB...with the LOIC charge that is in the NOA. Lets see if the fix is in.
One can always have hope. I do hope for justice but it has been very disconcerting to have to follow the stupidity of the NCAA coupled with the asinine above it all attitude of UNC.
 
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Packed, every week it seems there are more articles written about how horrible the UNC cheating scandals have been and a number of them criticize the NCAA for their nonchalant financially bent lack of effort regarding them. To me none of this matters because I just do not believe that the NCAA will ever come out of their total commitment to cash. Even now the stupid case has gone on forever because of cash. If the truth were ever to be known I would bet the NCAA is in sync with UNC on the whole of this situation.
The so-called protection of cash will be the NCAA's undoing. Protecting the UNC brand and the associated cash flow that brand generates will end up costing the NCAA many times over. First, you can assume that schools that have suffered severe punishment for much slighter offenses will rightfully be very upset. They are waiting for the final outcome of this. If the NCAA does not punish UNC appropriately in the eyes of the offended universities then you should expect these universities to file a law suit against the NCAA. To say there was no harm in this is laughable. Schools that were punished suffered real and measureable income loss due to the sanctions metted out to them from the NCAA. I would surmise that not only the punished schools would have a case against the NCAA but also all of the schools that were not sanctioned and played by the rules. Equally they were damaged by the cheating done by UNC as well. I do not know that UNC itself could become a target of lawsuits because that would open up Pandora's Box in a way to severely threaten all of collegiate sports.

The NCAA could have avoided all of this by conducting a proper investigation and then appropriate punishment. To argue that they are not in the business of academics is laughable and will not save them. I truly feel that the NCAA leadership are perhaps mentally challenged not to recognize the danger that is in front of them. This will not go away and will not be swept under the rug as much as UNC and its puppet the NCAA would like it to be.
 
The so-called protection of cash will be the NCAA's undoing. Protecting the UNC brand and the associated cash flow that brand generates will end up costing the NCAA many times over. First, you can assume that schools that have suffered severe punishment for much slighter offenses will rightfully be very upset. They are waiting for the final outcome of this. If the NCAA does not punish UNC appropriately in the eyes of the offended universities then you should expect these universities to file a law suit against the NCAA. To say there was no harm in this is laughable. Schools that were punished suffered real and measureable income loss due to the sanctions metted out to them from the NCAA. I would surmise that not only the punished schools would have a case against the NCAA but also all of the schools that were not sanctioned and played by the rules. Equally they were damaged by the cheating done by UNC as well. I do not know that UNC itself could become a target of lawsuits because that would open up Pandora's Box in a way to severely threaten all of collegiate sports.

The NCAA could have avoided all of this by conducting a proper investigation and then appropriate punishment. To argue that they are not in the business of academics is laughable and will not save them. I truly feel that the NCAA leadership are perhaps mentally challenged not to recognize the danger that is in front of them. This will not go away and will not be swept under the rug as much as UNC and its puppet the NCAA would like it to be.
I "liked" your post, but can't say I agree.
Hopefully you are right and I am wrong.
 
Here's where you are mistaken. To say "UNC cheats" means something entirely different than what it means to say "SEC schools cheat."

Wrong verb tense, to begin with; they have a burden of proof to meet before the tense is changed. But more to the point, for the Holes, it is institutionalized at the highest levels. They implicitly and explicitly (depending on the parties) sanction cheating for athletic and monetary purposes via academic fraud. For over 20 years the Chancellors knew and turned a blind eye. The ADs knew and did the same. The Department heads knew and helped ease the way. Professors and academic advisors (tutors) were hands on in the cheating. Coaches knew and steered players to phony courses. It was as official a policy as cheating will ever be anywhere. Lack of Institutional control doesn't even come close to describing it.

Not every SEC school cheats at the institutional level, though a few surely do (though we cannot prove that yet). Most cheating in the SEC, however, occurs at the very difficult to police ( and prove) booster level.

To equate all cheating is simply false, and offers no protection for cheater hole. In a way most never imagined, "the Carolina Way" is in a league all by itself. SMU pales...


Afraid you are correct here, my friend. The uNCAA is as corrupt as the Teamsters under Jimmy Hoffa.
SEC - Should Expect Cheating
 
Jack won't be surprised to hear this...the writing has been on the wall for 2 years now. If the NCAA had any intention of doing their job, it would've been done a long, long time ago.

However, I do hope the UNC faithful don't celebrate too hard when the NCAA wimps out, because I have a hunch that it all won't be over at that point. I'm guessing the UNC faithful won't be that bright, though, and will fully count their chickens before they hatch. Personally, I would wait a couple of months before I finally exhaled and truly believed that my school was in the clear, but I'm guessing most UNC posters didn't actually attend the school, so their motives will be different, I'm sure.

Suits me. I enjoy some good 'ole fashioned, premature, foot-in-mouth smack talk as much as the next guy does.
 
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SACS Restores UNC to Full Accreditation

Chancellor Carol L. Folt announced Thursday that the Southern Association of College and Schools has lifted UNC’s yearlong probationary status related to the academics-athletics fraud case that first came to light five years ago. The decision came in a meeting of the board of directors of SACS’ Commission on Colleges in Memphis, Tenn. Folt received a phone call, and the University should receive an official letter next week.

“Where we are today has taken deep introspection,” Folt said in a video message. “It’s taken admission that we needed to focus more in certain key areas. We’ve been working closely with our accreditation board to address the academic irregularities that ended in 2011.”

Folt said the work of reforming many of the University’s policies and practices has spanned five years and involved hundreds of people.

“We’ve demonstrated to SACSCOC that the reforms and initiatives we instituted are working and working well.”

When UNC was put on probation in June 2015, SACS President Belle Wheelan said it was the first time in her 10 years with the commission that SACS had put a school on probation for matters of academic integrity.

In November 2014, SACS notified the University that it was out of compliance with standards in 18 categories. In June 2015, the commission’s board of trustees said that it was satisfied with UNC’s progress in 11 of those areas but that the University had failed to meet SACS’ standards in seven remaining categories: integrity, program content, control of intercollegiate athletics, academic-support services, academic freedom, faculty role in governance and compliance with its program responsibilities under Title IV of the Higher Education Act.

Though details are not yet available, SACS clearly became satisfied that UNC had improved its adherence to those standards.
 
So SACS says that UNC still fails to meet compliance in 7 out of 18 categories (including integrity and control of intercollegiate athletics), but lifted the probation anyway?

So much for what anyone here has said in the past about SACS being a no-nonsense group. Sounds like NCHSAA Lite to me.
 
mtc,

Please read a little more carefully. It was June 2015, where SACS felt UNC was out of compliance with 7 of the 18 categories. They are saying that at present, June 2016, that it is satisfied UNC is in complete compliance.
 
But since they cheated, the football team should receive some punishment so that they not be a threat to beat VT.
 
mtc,

Please read a little more carefully. It was June 2015, where SACS felt UNC was out of compliance with 7 of the 18 categories. They are saying that at present, June 2016, that it is satisfied UNC is in complete compliance.
Ah, gotcha. That certainly makes a little more sense now.

I'm glad to see that the new admin at UNC has (mostly) made steps to correct the deficiencies. I say mostly because Williams still coaches there, so not every major issue has been fixed yet. But it's a good start.
 
Thx for your civil reply. We may disagree about the various issues and how athletics were involved but it was certainly a black eye and needed correcting.

I don't get get many thoughtful responses with the likes of Jack, 19, & Packed with their hate filled screeds on here.
 
backstreet, you're a long time, respectful visitor here. If you get flamed by someone on this board, it won't be by me.

I don't have colossal Heel Hate like some on the board do, but I am disturbed by the level of blatant disregard for integrity that has been reported throughout the years. If even half that stuff is true (and you know how the media is...only about half is what I would expect to be true), then it's still the worst case of open, willful shadiness I've ever seen.

I hope UNC pays the penalties for their past misbehavior, but I also hope they get everything cleaned up, rejoin the honest folks in the world, and let's all get on with life.
 
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If they are ever punished by NCAA, it will be so light of a punishment, it will not effect the sports programs. They will not get any post season bans. Thus life goes on as usual.
 
mtc,

Here are the kinds of things I am proud of at Carolina:

Two colleges where diversity works

CHAPEL HILL, N.C.; AND TALLAHASSEE, FLA. — Kelly Hogan was stunned. The biology professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (UNC) saw statistics generated by the university that showed something sobering about her Biology 101 class: More than 70 percent of the African-American students and more than 40 percent of Latinos were failing. First-generation students – the first in their families to attend college – were also struggling.

Faced with teaching 400-plus students, Ms. Hogan had resorted to a traditional lecture model. Now, she realized, “nothing I’m doing here is really in line with how learning works.” If she wanted to offer all her students the same chance to learn, she had to change the way she taught.

So she decided to introduce new material through assignments and start classes with a question. She often told students to consult with their neighbors, effectively turning endless tiers of passive teenagers into a buzzing hive. Hogan tried a host of other techniques as well – polling students electronically, for instance, to find out how much they knew about a subject.

Just three semesters later, the results were dramatic. The failure rate among African-Americans fell by half. The percentage who achieved C’s tripled, and more than 10 percent scored A’s and B’s. Latinos and first-generation students improved, too, as did white and Asian students. Today, building on some of the experimentation Hogan began implementing in 2009, UNC is channeling $1.8 million into transforming the way introductory science courses are taught.

This revamping is one small part of UNC’s attempt to improve the racial environment on campus. Across the United States, colleges and universities are launching new initiatives in response to jarring student protests over racism. Students are demanding more than just an increase in the number of minorities in classrooms. They are searching for a sense of belonging that often goes beyond what the civil rights movement fought for a generation ago.



There is a lot more on UNC and a bunch about the program at FSU but you get the idea....................

We all want our schools to be beacons of light and give our children the best chance at a brighter future. Sometimes we get so caught up in the competetion on the field we forget what the real reason our universities exist.








 
mtc,

Here are the kinds of things I am proud of at Carolina:

Two colleges where diversity works

CHAPEL HILL, N.C.; AND TALLAHASSEE, FLA. — Kelly Hogan was stunned. The biology professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (UNC) saw statistics generated by the university that showed something sobering about her Biology 101 class: More than 70 percent of the African-American students and more than 40 percent of Latinos were failing. First-generation students – the first in their families to attend college – were also struggling.

Faced with teaching 400-plus students, Ms. Hogan had resorted to a traditional lecture model. Now, she realized, “nothing I’m doing here is really in line with how learning works.” If she wanted to offer all her students the same chance to learn, she had to change the way she taught.

So she decided to introduce new material through assignments and start classes with a question. She often told students to consult with their neighbors, effectively turning endless tiers of passive teenagers into a buzzing hive. Hogan tried a host of other techniques as well – polling students electronically, for instance, to find out how much they knew about a subject.

Just three semesters later, the results were dramatic. The failure rate among African-Americans fell by half. The percentage who achieved C’s tripled, and more than 10 percent scored A’s and B’s. Latinos and first-generation students improved, too, as did white and Asian students. Today, building on some of the experimentation Hogan began implementing in 2009, UNC is channeling $1.8 million into transforming the way introductory science courses are taught.

This revamping is one small part of UNC’s attempt to improve the racial environment on campus. Across the United States, colleges and universities are launching new initiatives in response to jarring student protests over racism. Students are demanding more than just an increase in the number of minorities in classrooms. They are searching for a sense of belonging that often goes beyond what the civil rights movement fought for a generation ago.



There is a lot more on UNC and a bunch about the program at FSU but you get the idea....................

We all want our schools to be beacons of light and give our children the best chance at a brighter future. Sometimes we get so caught up in the competetion on the field we forget what the real reason our universities exist.







I thought the real reason our schools exist was so kids could go to real classes and get a real education.
 
That article puzzles me in that it appears the Professor did not know 70% were failing, until she saw stats generated by the university. As the Professor, I would think she teaches the class, writes the tests and grades the tests. Thus she should know pass/fail rate before submitting grades to University.

Am I missing something here ?
 
That article puzzles me in that it appears the Professor did not know 70% were failing, until she saw stats generated by the university. As the Professor, I would think she teaches the class, writes the tests and grades the tests. Thus she should know pass/fail rate before submitting grades to University.

Am I missing something here ?
Two other things puzzled me: 1) Why was the existing UNC lesson structure so poor that 70% of the students were failing to begin with (isn't this supposed to be a good school), and 2) Why did she have free reign to vacate that structure and teach whatever and however she saw fit? Isn't this "teachers doing their own unapproved thing without the university knowing about it" style what got UNC in academic hot water to begin with?
 
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Good point, if 70% of students are failing ANY class, there is a problem. Heck, I would say if 50% fail, there's a problem.
 
I had always held UNC in a rather good position mentally. I realized from my years living in NC and attending a few games that they had a nice campus and had worked petty hard as a school to position themselves well academically . When the news broke of their cheating if a participant attended the classless class it changed my mind from one of respect to one of total disrespect.
I don't like UNC because they are totally dishonorable as a school. I have them rated as low as the NCAA (whom I have no respect for).
As to the SEC, they are the best FB conference in the USA. They are also, IMO, the biggest cheaters in the USA.Let's face it guys, the sport is a big business and has become all about the money. I fear that before this sport plays itself out it will become more and more about cheating and money will drive it. The SEC will be joined by many others in this cheating thing. It will also make it a lot tougher for the Hokies because we do not have the wherewithal to cheat like these guys do even if we wanted to.
This sport better wake up and get their stuff together.
 
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Just to clarify and answer your question HR6, if she had 400 plus students and 70% of the black students were not passing that could be as few as 7 to 14 students or 1.75% to 3.5% of her class. It would be easy to miss that number and the correlation with that many students.

It is gratifying that UNC had a system to find out the problem and she had an innovative way to help her students that is now being shared with other universities.
 
Lots of "systems" UNC has in place to "help" students...but not necessarily to educate them.

Until UNC shows some integrity and becomes more transparent with what goes on (went on) over there, anything they do good or win will be met with skepticism from a lot of people. Look at the Boyer kid (walkon WR). He gets "hazed" by the his own teammates and is beat unconscious. One of the guys was already in trouble for beating up a frat boy earlier. So UNC does everything they can to hide what happened. Boyer's brother comes out and rails on UNC and threatens to go public. UNC PR team says it is nothing. Just some initiation by his loving fellow teammates. So then why did UNC just give this kid $795,000? And have the family sworn to silence?

The Carolina Way. Cheat, lie, deny, pay money, hang banner, wash/rinse...repeat.
 
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http://www.salon.com/2016/06/24/unc_ad_school_will_respond_to_ncaa_charges_by_july_deadline/

UNC AD: School will respond to NCAA charges by July deadline

Here are some excerpts:

CHAPEL HILL, N.C. (AP) — North Carolina athletic director Bubba Cunningham is hopeful the school is finally near the end of its long-running academic fraud scandal.

The school is a month away from its 90-day deadline to respond to the NCAA’s latest Notice of Allegations (NOA), which outlined five serious charges that include lack of institutional control. In an interview with The Associated Press, Cunningham said UNC will meet that deadline — there had previously been an eight-month hiccup in the process — in a case that hung over a strong 2015-16 sports season.

Cunningham cited high points that included two NCAA championships and a 3.0 GPA for athletes in the spring semester.

“I think it goes without saying that that’s all done with everybody’s eyes squarely fixed on what they’re taking, when they’re taking it, and the students have told us they’ve been under a microscope,” Cunningham said. “So hopefully the success will continue to build back confidence and trust. I think it has.”

UNC is set for another top-10 finish in the Directors’ Cup Division I standings, highlighted by the men’s and women’s lacrosse programs sweeping NCAA titles last month.

UNC’s highest-profile sports — men’s basketball and football — also had their best seasons in years. Men’s basketball won its first Atlantic Coast Conference Tournament title since 2008, reached its first Final Four since 2009 and lost to Villanova on a last-second shot in the title game.

Football matched a program record with 11 wins and reached the ACC championship game, a year good enough for coach Larry Fedora — Cunningham’s first major hire at UNC in 2011 — to earn a new seven-year contract.

The field hockey team also finished as national runner-up.

“We had so many teams ranked highly all year,” Cunningham said. “Now we didn’t finish them all. But that’s probably as strong as we’ve ever been.”



 
Backstreet you seem to me to be a straight up guy. You are the kind of poster that makes people wander where you came from because you just don't behave like so many of your compatriots have. Visit anytime and post often.
As to this last post , I wish I could feel more enthused about it but to me it's just more of that UNC yada yada,yada. In short , I don't trust those guys. It took many lifetimes to build up your schools standing before this happened.
No matter how good your sports teams are doing it wont buy you any respect from many. Takes time and good open positive work .
 
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Then why do you have a problem with UVA.......haven't beaten VT since I had hair. And I don't remember when I had hair.
Yeah, this amazes me too. I have the utmost of respect for UVA. Always have . Doesn't mean I don't want to win every athletic contest against them in the worst way but at the end of the day they are a great Virginia University.
 
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UVA gets recruits that should have gone to VT. They fell for some unknown promises on recruiting trail. Why would a 3, 4 or 5 star player go play for a loser at UVA, when he could go play for a winner at VT, and make VT even better. Granted UVA has a high academic reputation , but these are not Doctors, Lawyers or Rhodes Scholars we're dealing with.
 
Just to clarify and answer your question HR6, if she had 400 plus students and 70% of the black students were not passing that could be as few as 7 to 14 students or 1.75% to 3.5% of her class. It would be easy to miss that number and the correlation with that many students.

It is gratifying that UNC had a system to find out the problem and she had an innovative way to help her students that is now being shared with other universities.

Backstreet - cool article and very interesting. First I would say that VT has it's programs that have high failure rates - to wit Engineering. What I am interested in is what is the amount of knowledge gained from the new teaching methods vs the old lecture hall method of teaching? Grades can be inflated as we all know. The only objective way I know of is to compare standardized testing scores of subject matter before the change and after the change. If indeed not only passing rates increased but also actual learning then you are really on to something here. Perhaps it is a better method of reaching minority students while providing a good learning environment for all. Would love to know the statistics of objective tests. If favorable then your learning methods should be modeled across the country. Perhaps it is that some people are more verbal/hands-on learning versus visual/reading comprehension learning. If this method works for both then we all should use this method that your professor uses.
 
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