Kind of a big loss in my opinion. He was the best offensive coach that we had, but he was the lowest paid coach as well.. In the time he has been here The line stayed bad, the running backs regressed, and we all know the QB situation. The WR core did improve and Moorehead made sure he put the best players on the field no matter the class or loyalty. was also a good recruiter. Really hated to hear the news but money talks in the real world wish him all the best.
A. Moorehead to TX A&M
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He's gone, INDIRECTLY, because of Coach Beamer and Stinespring...more....
I wrote INDIRECTLY!!!!! Meaning.....you will find little to no situation like Virginia Tech in the country in that our TE's coach (B. Stinespring) is among the highest paid in America and that is unique. What is also "unique" is that our TE's coach has a 5 year bye out clause which basically states if he is fired, he gets paid BIG TIME money. Like I wrote, very "unique" for a TE's coach. What makes is more "unique"? Our TE's coach is on staff after a demotion from the OC position. The point is....we have little money freed up or to spend on the OL Coach, RB Coach, and WR Coach because Lefty (the OC/QB coach) gets his OC pay, but incredibly, the TE's coach who has the title, "recruiting coordinator" attached to his name gets huge money, leaving little for the WR and OL Coach. The RB's coach is Shane Beamer and he is happy to be on staff, but actually has a hefty salary for a RB's coach. In short.......at VT, due to the Frank Beamer good ole boy system, the WR's and OL coaches are left in a mess and are largely underpaid. Guess who we lost after 1 season? The former OL Coach. Who did we lose after 2 seasons? The WR coach. Wait and see....it will not be long before the current OL coach is gone. The damage Coach Frank Beamer has done indirectly through keeping Stinespring around and the decisions he has made around Stinespring continues to give folks. Once again....solution......in my opinion is....
Remove the Head Coach (should have been done 2 years ago).
Ensure Coach Stinespring is also removed (should have been done 8 years ago)
Summary....there is a REASON for turnover at the WR and OL Coaching position and getting ready for more of it and there is a reason for no turnover at the RB coach position and TE coaching position.
This post was edited on 1/19 3:10 PM by lucustookis
I wrote INDIRECTLY!!!!! Meaning.....you will find little to no situation like Virginia Tech in the country in that our TE's coach (B. Stinespring) is among the highest paid in America and that is unique. What is also "unique" is that our TE's coach has a 5 year bye out clause which basically states if he is fired, he gets paid BIG TIME money. Like I wrote, very "unique" for a TE's coach. What makes is more "unique"? Our TE's coach is on staff after a demotion from the OC position. The point is....we have little money freed up or to spend on the OL Coach, RB Coach, and WR Coach because Lefty (the OC/QB coach) gets his OC pay, but incredibly, the TE's coach who has the title, "recruiting coordinator" attached to his name gets huge money, leaving little for the WR and OL Coach. The RB's coach is Shane Beamer and he is happy to be on staff, but actually has a hefty salary for a RB's coach. In short.......at VT, due to the Frank Beamer good ole boy system, the WR's and OL coaches are left in a mess and are largely underpaid. Guess who we lost after 1 season? The former OL Coach. Who did we lose after 2 seasons? The WR coach. Wait and see....it will not be long before the current OL coach is gone. The damage Coach Frank Beamer has done indirectly through keeping Stinespring around and the decisions he has made around Stinespring continues to give folks. Once again....solution......in my opinion is....
Remove the Head Coach (should have been done 2 years ago).
Ensure Coach Stinespring is also removed (should have been done 8 years ago)
Summary....there is a REASON for turnover at the WR and OL Coaching position and getting ready for more of it and there is a reason for no turnover at the RB coach position and TE coaching position.
This post was edited on 1/19 3:10 PM by lucustookis
Not sure this will be as big a loss as some think. I think a WR coach at any level is certainly replaceable. Has the WR position really been any different for us with Tony Ball, Kevin Sherman, and Moorehead as coach? Recruiting wise, Moorehead did okay, but nothing that our next WR coach cannot do. Statistically, Ford was our leading WR, and he did fine for a freshman, but his 709 receiving yards ranked 105th in the country, and his 56 catches tied for 83rd, so we should keep things in perspective before overreacting about this coaching loss, and worry that Ford and others cannot do just as well or better with someone else coaching him.
As far as money is concerned, if Whit and Beamer really felt Moorehead were a big loss, Whit would have paid him more. He recently gave Buzz almost 3 million a year, and Bud nearly a million a year, so certainly he could have found another 100,000 or so a year for Moorehead if he really thought we could not afford to lose him.
There's that VT "Stinespringesk" offensive mentality
1. You write it's not a big deal to lose a WR's coach because the WR situation has been the same with Sherman, Ball, and Moorehead. Ummmm, earth to KANG, the common denominator is the Head Coach who was there for all three of them and the OC which was there for all but 2 years of them. The difference isn't the 3 WR coaches regarding productivity, it's the hindrance placed by the Head Coach and former OC.
2. Whit couldn't pay Moorehead more because Stinespring, the TE's coach is getting all the money. I love how you write "he could find the other 100,000." Again....lol, we have the highest paid TE coach in America. Certainly, you don't believe a TE's coach is more valuable than a WR's coach do you? Oh wait, we also made him the "recruiting coordinator" lol, so that makes his salary justified.
3. See my post below on why we can't pay Moorehead more. We inserted a "no fire" or else clause for Stinespring. We have to protect our highly desired coach that I'm confident other programs are chomping at the bit to steal from us.
1. You write it's not a big deal to lose a WR's coach because the WR situation has been the same with Sherman, Ball, and Moorehead. Ummmm, earth to KANG, the common denominator is the Head Coach who was there for all three of them and the OC which was there for all but 2 years of them. The difference isn't the 3 WR coaches regarding productivity, it's the hindrance placed by the Head Coach and former OC.
2. Whit couldn't pay Moorehead more because Stinespring, the TE's coach is getting all the money. I love how you write "he could find the other 100,000." Again....lol, we have the highest paid TE coach in America. Certainly, you don't believe a TE's coach is more valuable than a WR's coach do you? Oh wait, we also made him the "recruiting coordinator" lol, so that makes his salary justified.
3. See my post below on why we can't pay Moorehead more. We inserted a "no fire" or else clause for Stinespring. We have to protect our highly desired coach that I'm confident other programs are chomping at the bit to steal from us.
So you continually preach
VT has an "O that caters to the D", but then state:
"Statistically, Ford was our leading WR, and he did fine for a freshman, but his 709 receiving yards ranked 105th in the country, and his 56 catches tied for 83rd, so we should keep things in perspective before overreacting about this coaching loss"
as a reason for not missing Moorehead (instead of low wide receiver stats at VT being a repercussion of Frank's O that caters to the D).
I think you're talking out of both sides of your mouth and want it both ways.
Moorehead was a decent O coach under Frank's general defensive umbrella.
VT has an "O that caters to the D", but then state:
"Statistically, Ford was our leading WR, and he did fine for a freshman, but his 709 receiving yards ranked 105th in the country, and his 56 catches tied for 83rd, so we should keep things in perspective before overreacting about this coaching loss"
as a reason for not missing Moorehead (instead of low wide receiver stats at VT being a repercussion of Frank's O that caters to the D).
I think you're talking out of both sides of your mouth and want it both ways.
Moorehead was a decent O coach under Frank's general defensive umbrella.
Without Moorhead we don't get Ford or Phillips and we don't make headway into MD. He also got us Whitehead, Williamson, and Fullwood. He was a huge upgrade to Sherman both coaching and recruiting.
Re: So you continually preach
I am not criticizing our current WRs or Moorehead. I just do not see how the past 2 years at WR have been any better than previous years, and, going way back, if you think there has been a big difference in our WRs from Ball to Sherman to Moorehead you are kidding yourself. Also, as I said earlier, Moorehead's recruiting has been okay, but certainly not so great that it cannot be matched by a new coach, so, my point is from a coaching, statistical, and recruiting standpoint, I see no reason to be worried about losing Moorehead.
Nothing both ways about that comment at all.
I never said Moorehead was not a decent coach. I said he is easily replaceable, and I am surprised that people think a guy that has been a full time assistant for only 2 years is the exception, and will be hard to replace.
This post was edited on 1/20 2:47 AM by pckank1
How could my post possibly tell you I am having it both ways? We might have an O that caters to the D, but not nearly as much as we used to. We still might be a little conservative at times, but we sure have been throwing it a lot more the past few years. From 2004-2010, we averaged throwing the ball 24, 23, 25, 29, 21, 19, and 24 times a game. in 2011 and 2012, we threw it a little more and averaged 29 and 33 throws those years. During Moorehead's time here, we threw the ball 432 times in 2013 (about 33 times a game), and 456 times in 2014 (about 35 times a game), which is by far the most passing in a 2 year stretch we have ever done under Beamer, yet, our past WRs did just as good or better than the ones under Moorehead.
I am not criticizing our current WRs or Moorehead. I just do not see how the past 2 years at WR have been any better than previous years, and, going way back, if you think there has been a big difference in our WRs from Ball to Sherman to Moorehead you are kidding yourself. Also, as I said earlier, Moorehead's recruiting has been okay, but certainly not so great that it cannot be matched by a new coach, so, my point is from a coaching, statistical, and recruiting standpoint, I see no reason to be worried about losing Moorehead.
Nothing both ways about that comment at all.
I never said Moorehead was not a decent coach. I said he is easily replaceable, and I am surprised that people think a guy that has been a full time assistant for only 2 years is the exception, and will be hard to replace.
This post was edited on 1/20 2:47 AM by pckank1
Re: So you continually preach
Every coach is replaceable.. But what do you replace them with? I think Moorehead was a young energetic coach that the players loved, and listened too, and he recruited very well. Brought in Ford who broke the Fresh record for catches and yards, and Cam who was a beast too. Also on game days I never remember seeing Sherman. Moorehead is everywhere. He was the one communicating with Brewer and in the Offensive huddles during time outs. He worried about more than just his WR group. But like lucas pointed out Shane and Stiney make all that money to just worry about RB's and TE's.. It was just my opinion and I may be alone but I do strongly believe that he was the best coach on offense that we had.. Having said all that I'm sure that Moorehead just took the opportunity to be a D1 coach and VT was a great starter place for him. I don't think he was in love with our offensive system so he went to a very WR friendly one, not only that, he is working with a few blue chippers in a state filled with talent at school that is the "it" school in the state even if VT would have matched the offer he would have left... Pretty good gig.
Every coach is replaceable.. But what do you replace them with? I think Moorehead was a young energetic coach that the players loved, and listened too, and he recruited very well. Brought in Ford who broke the Fresh record for catches and yards, and Cam who was a beast too. Also on game days I never remember seeing Sherman. Moorehead is everywhere. He was the one communicating with Brewer and in the Offensive huddles during time outs. He worried about more than just his WR group. But like lucas pointed out Shane and Stiney make all that money to just worry about RB's and TE's.. It was just my opinion and I may be alone but I do strongly believe that he was the best coach on offense that we had.. Having said all that I'm sure that Moorehead just took the opportunity to be a D1 coach and VT was a great starter place for him. I don't think he was in love with our offensive system so he went to a very WR friendly one, not only that, he is working with a few blue chippers in a state filled with talent at school that is the "it" school in the state even if VT would have matched the offer he would have left... Pretty good gig.
Re: So you continually preach
also being closer to the family of the mother of his children might had something to do with it. They are in New Mexico. Just how long do you think he will stay at Texas A & M ? Amo is a great young coach on his way to the NFL.
also being closer to the family of the mother of his children might had something to do with it. They are in New Mexico. Just how long do you think he will stay at Texas A & M ? Amo is a great young coach on his way to the NFL.
Re: So you continually preach
As far as Shane and Stiney making more money than him is concerned, how many schools do you think would give a guy who had never been a full time assistant more money than them? And, I think Stiney does a heck of a lot more than "worry about the TEs". If you really feel this way, you must think recruiting is not important, recruiting coordinators are useless, VT trying to be a huge factor again in the 757 is meaningless, and a total of 8 committments from him this year, including four 4 star guys, is not acceptable. But, if you only want to focus on the TE position, last time I checked our young TE, who he happened to recruit, and who had never before played the position, had a pretty decent year.
I agree it is hard to argue with Moorehead going to such a WR friendly school, and not only that, he also gets to recruit in a state loaded with talent at a school that averaged 105,000 fans last year. Real good gig indeed, and I wish him all the best, but, no worries, we will be fine at that coaching position.
This post was edited on 1/20 9:37 AM by pckank1
That is fine if the players loved him and listened to him, and that is also fine if he communicated with Brewer a lot, but does talking to our QB and "being everywhere" really prove anything and mean he was a better coach than Sherman or Ball? Is 2 years of coaching WRs at a school that had the 103rd and 99th ranked offenses, combined with getting a few 4 star guys in 2 years on the recruiting side, along with the extras you mentioned enough to justify the worry in losing him? His recruiting was fine, but we have gotten 17 four star commitments the past 2 years, and he is responsible for 3 of them, which is not bad, but is certainly replaceable.
As far as Shane and Stiney making more money than him is concerned, how many schools do you think would give a guy who had never been a full time assistant more money than them? And, I think Stiney does a heck of a lot more than "worry about the TEs". If you really feel this way, you must think recruiting is not important, recruiting coordinators are useless, VT trying to be a huge factor again in the 757 is meaningless, and a total of 8 committments from him this year, including four 4 star guys, is not acceptable. But, if you only want to focus on the TE position, last time I checked our young TE, who he happened to recruit, and who had never before played the position, had a pretty decent year.
I agree it is hard to argue with Moorehead going to such a WR friendly school, and not only that, he also gets to recruit in a state loaded with talent at a school that averaged 105,000 fans last year. Real good gig indeed, and I wish him all the best, but, no worries, we will be fine at that coaching position.
This post was edited on 1/20 9:37 AM by pckank1
Re: So you continually preach
As much as I hate it, I don't see him as that easy to replace, value wise.
He's the offensive equivalent of an up and coming T Gray with nfl cred, street cred, and an energetic, charismatic personality; wearing an elite level, golfball-sized trophy on his finger that reflects TAMU loving sunlight when he walks in the door. Everyone was excited about him when he got here because he had that magnetic vibe about him and he fit the bill.
As much as I hate it, I don't see him as that easy to replace, value wise.
Re: So you continually preach
Didn't Al Groh like flashing the Super Bowl ring all the time? How did that work out? That was for you, Hoos 19.
Fair enough Sunny. Maybe we won't replace him with a street cred, energetic, charismatic personality, Super Bowl ring wearing guy, but that does not mean we will suffer any from a wins and losses standpoint. Time will tell. No one is right or wrong right now, and I respect the differing opinions on this one. But, I have to ask........
Didn't Al Groh like flashing the Super Bowl ring all the time? How did that work out? That was for you, Hoos 19.
Re: So you continually preach
While no one is irreplaceable, there was a lot left to be done here by him.
I think Stiney and Shane were overpaid based on their contributions, and Moorehead, Gray, Wiles, and Foster were underpaid based on their contributions.
I look forward to Loeffler and Searles getting underpaid - meaning that I look forward to seeing more contributions from them and having us clamor to pay them more so that they are also not underpaid. I think Searles is well on his way there. The line looked improved at the end of the season. I'm looking forward to seeing them here another year. I had been hoping to see AM here for another year also.
I agree with all of you but here's my take...the loss of Morehead hurts because he had a lot more left to accomplish here. He has a very high ceiling (which he's taking with him to A&M) and it would have been great to have him here for another 2-3 years before he felt he had to move on.Originally posted by pckank1:
Fair enough Sunny. Maybe we won't replace him with a street cred, energetic, charismatic personality, Super Bowl ring wearing guy, but that does not mean we will suffer any from a wins and losses standpoint. Time will tell. No one is right or wrong right now, and I respect the differing opinions on this one. But, I have to ask........
Didn't Al Groh like flashing the Super Bowl ring all the time? How did that work out? That was for you, Hoos 19.
While no one is irreplaceable, there was a lot left to be done here by him.
I think Stiney and Shane were overpaid based on their contributions, and Moorehead, Gray, Wiles, and Foster were underpaid based on their contributions.
I look forward to Loeffler and Searles getting underpaid - meaning that I look forward to seeing more contributions from them and having us clamor to pay them more so that they are also not underpaid. I think Searles is well on his way there. The line looked improved at the end of the season. I'm looking forward to seeing them here another year. I had been hoping to see AM here for another year also.
