If the season ended today
- Thread starter bschroed
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Good choices.....if FSU finishes strong he probably wins it, but I would say if VT wins out, Buzz has a real shot.
There seems to be so many choices, even 'Cuse for the comeback. What about Georgia Tech???
Pastner has an argument as well. Tough to pick if the season ended today. No clear choices.
I am certainly not a fan of him, and I would not vote for him because they should be on probation, but if UNC wins regular season title, Roy Williams will have as good a case as anyone. Yes, they have a lot of talent, but they also lost Johnson and Paige from last year's team, and the media seems to continue to ignore their scandal, so don't be surprised if he wins it.
Buzz has done a great job, but VT, if they finish 11-7, would only be one game better than last year, and let's not kid ourselves and act like Buzz is doing a lot with a little. Allen, LeDay, Robinson, Bibbs, Hill, and Clark are very good players that would play for a lot of teams.
If you are considering Buzz, you might as well consider Bennett because UVA lost most of their talent while VT returned most of theirs, and both are 8-7 right now. Also, it is fair to say VT has more talent than UVA this year.
I think the league is so tough this year, the team that wins the regular season title might see its coach win coach of the year, no matter who it ends up being.
My pick? Too early to say. A lot to be decided in the last few games.
Buzz has done a great job, but VT, if they finish 11-7, would only be one game better than last year, and let's not kid ourselves and act like Buzz is doing a lot with a little. Allen, LeDay, Robinson, Bibbs, Hill, and Clark are very good players that would play for a lot of teams.
If you are considering Buzz, you might as well consider Bennett because UVA lost most of their talent while VT returned most of theirs, and both are 8-7 right now. Also, it is fair to say VT has more talent than UVA this year.
I think the league is so tough this year, the team that wins the regular season title might see its coach win coach of the year, no matter who it ends up being.
My pick? Too early to say. A lot to be decided in the last few games.
Disagree with that comment. It's not about the players we have on the floor. No doubt they are good players, but that's not the point. It's about the players we don't have on the floor, the size and the depth compared to other coaches who would be considered COY contenders. How well do you think Roy Williams would be doing with Buzz's depleted team right now? No depth, no size to use to pound his opposition on the offensive glass.
I think it's more complicated than talent level, and more how that talent can be configured. A team with five Shaqs on it would be the most talented team of all time, arguably, going by raw talent, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have definite situational disadvantages. While we stretch the perimeter and put up gaudy numbers from beyond the arc with our guard and wing oriented offense, we give up a TON underneath defensively for our lack of size -- getting mauled on the boards and often giving up second chance points in clusters. Our match-up zone has been executed pretty awkwardly, as well, with slow rotation almost invariably leading to wide open three looks in the corner. We play teams extremely tight for this reason. The fact that VT is 5-1 in single possession games, and that Buzz has been able to tweak the personnel to achieve optimal chemistry, is a testament to his coaching. I think that's often what separates good coaches from mediocre and bad coaches.
Also, fair or not, you can't judge program expectations the same across the board. UVa made the Elite 8 last year, and UNC was the national runner-up. Obviously, they've had to overcome personnel changes and losses, but the preseason expectations for those programs, in the broader sense and within their own fan base, was much greater than VT's and that's often taken into account when COY selections are made. UNC was picked to finish 2nd, UVa was picked to finish 3rd, and VT was picked 10th.
No doubt about it, if Tech runs the table down the stretch, that is performing well beyond expectations where UVa's season is basically a disappointment already. So, you could argue for Roy Williams, but I would still say vis a vis what's happened at VT this year, Buzz would be a better pick if we ran the table. No-one is surprised when UNC wins the conference, but a VT team finishing 22-8 (11-7) offers a pretty powerful narrative and is a far cry from finishing 10th in the conference.
But, it works both ways. Sure, maybe VT does not have the inside, offensive rebounding game a team like UNC does, but VT leads the ACC in 3 point %, and has had numerous games where they shot lights out from there. UNC cannot match them there.
I think we have a very good team with a lot of talent right now, and I think Buzz has done a real good job coaching them, but even minus Clarke, I just cannot call them depleted like you can. We have too many weapons still out there to call us that.
How would Roy do with VT's talent. Who knows? But, it is hard to assume he would not have found at least 8 ACC wins so far with them. Also, hard to assume Buzz would be 11-3 with UNC's team. Maybe he would, but to be 11-3 right now in this year's ACC is incredible.
Bottom line: This league is so tough this year that whoever gets his team to the dance has done a very good job.
I think we have a very good team with a lot of talent right now, and I think Buzz has done a real good job coaching them, but even minus Clarke, I just cannot call them depleted like you can. We have too many weapons still out there to call us that.
How would Roy do with VT's talent. Who knows? But, it is hard to assume he would not have found at least 8 ACC wins so far with them. Also, hard to assume Buzz would be 11-3 with UNC's team. Maybe he would, but to be 11-3 right now in this year's ACC is incredible.
Bottom line: This league is so tough this year that whoever gets his team to the dance has done a very good job.
That's the point, though: UNC doesn't have to match them from there because they have flexibility. When you have length, athletic ability and you can shoot the ball you don't have to tailor your offense to be powered almost purely by outside shooting. As much as it is by design in our offense, it's also necessity. It gives us the best chance to win, but without it we are extremely vulnerable in ways that a team like Louisville or UNC are not.
Also, I'm not sure why either of those are safe assumptions to make. Seems kinda arbitrary and pointless to argue that.
HeaksManley,
I hear what you are saying, but we should not go by pre season rankings. Anyone who looked at UVA's returning talent and thought they would finish 3rd did not do enough research and was not paying attention.
I realize VT has flaws, and I will again say that Buzz has done a solid job, but teams that will finish in front of VT have flaws as well. Depending on what argument and what side you are on, you can always find the positives and negatives for any team. It is not like Buzz is the only coach who has dealt with an injury or a team's flaw.
If we finish 11-7, I am not saying Buzz would be a bad pick, and I respect the arguments for him. But, my point is other coaches will be deserving as well. We still have some games left. but at this point with no dominant teams out there, I think it should go to the regular season champ.
I hear what you are saying, but we should not go by pre season rankings. Anyone who looked at UVA's returning talent and thought they would finish 3rd did not do enough research and was not paying attention.
I realize VT has flaws, and I will again say that Buzz has done a solid job, but teams that will finish in front of VT have flaws as well. Depending on what argument and what side you are on, you can always find the positives and negatives for any team. It is not like Buzz is the only coach who has dealt with an injury or a team's flaw.
If we finish 11-7, I am not saying Buzz would be a bad pick, and I respect the arguments for him. But, my point is other coaches will be deserving as well. We still have some games left. but at this point with no dominant teams out there, I think it should go to the regular season champ.
I mean, if you don't go by the preseason, either by conference or national rankings, what do you base your expectations on? You keep bringing up last season's accomplishments for UNC and UVa vs. this year, so how do you separate the two? There has to be a base line or something from which you can shape your judgment of a body of work and that's what history and preseason picks are for.
Also, I agree that generally speaking preseason takes are pointless. I think the end of the year superlatives and honors are generally window dressing and pointless as well, but I'm not sure what else you expect the media to base their picks on. If going by consensus, it would be hard to vote Roy over Hamilton or Buzz if things continue on this trajectory.
I understand your point, but I base my expectations on how I feel the teams will do, not by what the media predicts. If we are trying to guess the media's choice, then yes, we should focus on their pre season rankings.
But, if we are wanting our own choices, then it is important to consider how we felt before the season started. I figured UVA would struggle some and never would have picked them 3rd, Buzz has VT about where I thought they would and should be, and I had no idea who the pre season favorite should be, so maybe that is why I keep ;leaning on the regular season champ's coach.
So, maybe we should have 2 answers: who we think the media will pick, and who we think should win it.
All I can tell you is UVA would probably be a top 4 team in the ACC with Nichols.....without him, well you see where we are. Bennett did exactly what he should have done by dismissing Nichols from the team....funny thing is Nichols has remained in school and some speculation he could be back next year if he can behave.
Well, I would point out then that we are down to six players plus one freshman who's minutes and contributions are extremely limited. If you don't think that's depleted then we'll just have to disagree. I hardly think that anyone who believes Buzz is doing more with less is kidding himself.
How much of our 3 point % would you attribute to Buzz's coaching? Have you been watching our ball movement and shot selection? We're making shots not only because we have shooting talent but they are also taking great shots.
So you feel Buzz has us about where you felt they would be before the season. How many scholarship players were you basing that expectation on? (i.e. was that with or without the 5 scholarship players we had expected to have before the season started that we no longer have?)
My goodness, you act like Buzz is going to battle with a high school team. You are not giving nearly enough credit to the guys that are actually playing. Sorry you think Allen, LeDay, Bibbs, Hill, and Robinson suck so bad. Add Clarke, who we had for 24 games, and you have 6 guys that could play for anyone in the ACC. Then, give a few minutes to Outlaw and Sy and you are left with a talented enough group that makes it not surprising to be at 8-7 right now.
Who cares how many guys we don't have when the guys we do have are playing so well? And it is not like the 5 that we do not have would have played a lot of minutes anyway.
A lot of teams give most or all of their minutes to 7 or 8 guys, so why act like we are at such a disadvantage without depth when the ones we have are playing so well? And, why get on me for saying Buzz has us where I thought we would be? We are 8-7, not 12-3. Did you not think we would be around 8-7 right now? You actually thought we would be worse than that in year 3 for Buzz with the all the returning talent we had coming back?
I didn't say anything about the guys we have "sucking so bad", that's just a childish response on your part. I asked you to clarify your comment about your preseason expectations. We're 5 players down from that point in time now so it's a legitimate question. What/who did it include? I didn't say that I thought we would be worse in year 3 either. Don't try to put words in my mouth. But it is a different team than year 2 with some different challenges than year 2. I do think Buzz deserves a lot of credit for molding a size and depth challenged team, this year, into the competitive product on the floor that they have become with his coaching.
If you don't want anyone to challenge your comments, don't post.
No issues at all with anyone challenging my posts. Funny you say that because it seems like you have an issue because I responded to yours. No reason for you to act like this and make that last comment just because we disagree on an opinion topic where there is no exact right answer. It seems like you are getting all bothered just because I don't respond to you with "great post, I agree 100%".
Sure, Buzz has faced challenges this year, but so have most other coaches. For every challenge Buzz has had in year 3, he also had some advantages, especially with the returning talent that he was able to put out on the floor. This is why, despite the players we don't have, I felt strongly in the pre season that Buzz would have us at least at 8-7 and in position to dance at this time. My Expecting us to be 8-7 with the players we do have does not seem that crazy to me, and I do not think you are giving Buzz or our players nearly enough credit if you are this surprised that we are 8-7 right now.
For what it is worth, I agree with many of your Buzz comments and have said numerous times he has done a solid job this year. I also said I respect those opinions that think he should be coach of the year, so I am not sure why this is turning into an argument instead of a discussion.
There are 15 coaches, and many are and will be deserving, so just because I think someone else might deserve it a little more than Buzz does not mean I am being negative toward Buzz.
I love Seth Allen, but god almighty, he is so turnover-prone. Not a pure PG, but that's not what we were looking for when we got him. On the other hand, shooting around 50% from 3 makes it a little easier to accept games like today where his hands seem to be covered in a thick layer of grease.
Also, hats off to Outlaw. That kid has REALLY stepped in nicely for Clarke. His shooting has been great, but I'm impressed with how active he's been on defense. Great road win today in what could have been a trap game.
Also, hats off to Outlaw. That kid has REALLY stepped in nicely for Clarke. His shooting has been great, but I'm impressed with how active he's been on defense. Great road win today in what could have been a trap game.
Good points about Allen. He turns it over, but his shooting has been huge this year. Last year, he shot 28% from 3 and 39% overall. This year, he is at 48% from 3 and 54% overall. He is taking better shots because he does not feel he has to do too much. Last year, he was one of only 3 double digit scorers. This year, he shoots less and averages 2 less points a game, but is one of 5 double digit scorers.
Outlaw is on fire, 12 for 16 from 3 point land the past 3 games.
We need to keep winning and get a 6 seed, which would give us a good path (beat the 11 seed and the 3 seed) to the sweet 16.
I agree on Hamilton. Hands down, I think it's Hamilton. This guy is a great coach. He's very sharp x's and o's wise, his teams play with great discipline, and I love how he gets his teams to rebound the basketball. I got Hamilton at one, Buzz at 2, and Brey tied at 3 with Larranaga from Miami. I know Miami's record is 20-8 and 10-6 in the conference, but with Larranaga and Buzz, you can see it building.....meaning....the talent on the court due to very solid recent recruiting. Miami has some scary good athletes and I think this bunch is one team you want no part of in the NCAA tournament. I think Miami is a final 8 type team. Brey is a solid coach, but he did have two solid players returning, and Farrell has emerged as one of the most improved players in the United States, but one reason for that is his experience in the program. Buzz is a solid coach, but like Larranaga at Miami, you can just see talent all over the floor which is a credit to both coaches ability to recruit. Overall, I still think it goes to Hamilton. He has talent also, but this guy can coach. FSU is also a potential final 8 type team.
Since you openly admit you haven't watched a UVA .....your opinion means squat. You haven't sniffed the NCAA Tournament for what 10 years, until this season and all of a sudden you think you know basketball. HR stick to sports you know about like pickle ball and cow tipping.....leave the real sports to those of us that watch and understand the game.
You gotta love it. HR liked your dish. And you know it doesn't matter if it is Tiddly Winks or Football - HR is going to dish the hoos. And for the record - yes it does look nice this year when I look at the ACC standings and see us ahead of you. May have been awhile coming but at least we can say it in basketball too. Unlike you in football 
I have noticed the Hoo fans I see daily, no longer talk about basketball. They are talking baseball. Up until about 2 weeks ago, they worried me daily trying to talk basketball.
Last I looked we are tied.....not ahead of us yet.You gotta love it. HR liked your dish. And you know it doesn't matter if it is Tiddly Winks or Football - HR is going to dish the hoos. And for the record - yes it does look nice this year when I look at the ACC standings and see us ahead of you. May have been awhile coming but at least we can say it in basketball too. Unlike you in football
You gotta love it. HR liked your dish. And you know it doesn't matter if it is Tiddly Winks or Football - HR is going to dish the hoos. And for the record - yes it does look nice this year when I look at the ACC standings and see us ahead of you. May have been awhile coming but at least we can say it in basketball too. Unlike you in football
Not quite ahead of UVA yet. Maybe after tonight, but not yet. Both teams are 9-7, and we split the season series. So, the next tiebreaker used is record against the top team, and then 2nd place team if necessary, and on down until the tie is broken.
We both lost to UNC, but UVA beat Louisville twice and also beat ND, while we have lost to all of them. So, as of right now, they are still ahead of us in the official ACC standings.
All irrelevant right now, but just giving you a heads up on the tie breaker rules.
I figured he didn't know the tiebreaker....but doubtful we beat UNCheat and I could see VT winning their last 2.
UNC should be ashamed embarrassed and humiliated for losing to those misfits. UNC simply did not come to play.
