Another one that was VT lean most of the way is off to another school. Noles have landed a top 5 Virginian in each of the past 3 classes now. With Sweat, Nnadi and Levenberry. At the end of the day, winning and draft status are very important to most 5 star and high 4 star recruits. FSU and Bama have been winning a lot and they have the most drafted players over the past 4 years of any other programs. If I'm VT coaching staff, I'm getting a van and I'm taking every coach to Tim Settle's doorstep and letting him know how important he is to this class. He's the only major player left that has VT involved. Put all the eggs in that basket if you will. Sweat is early enrollee so I doubt he flips in the next 3 weeks.
Sweat to the Noles...Ouch
- Thread starter one man
- Start date
The longer Va Tech wallows in Bowden Syndrome, the more top recruits we take from Virginia. Beamer is not going anywhere and VA Tech football will remain in a coma of death
I have posted several times on this forum about how similar your problems are/were with what we went through during the 2000s. You have a legend for a coach who will not admit that he should step aside for the good of the program. Until this is resolved you will remain where you are. We need VT to be not good but excellent to help with the ACCs image. This situation is heartbreaking because of your admiration for the old coach but at the same time you know he needs to go. Best of luck, you are between a rock and a hard place. You need a complete new coaching staff, young, energetic and knowledgeable.
This is a very thoughtful post from Trust Me.... and you would know since you actually lived through it. I am afraid VT is afraid to take the leap and make the change, but they really need to make the change.....
The irony here is that I am a Hokie actually now living in Tallahassee with a son here in college at FSU. I have adopted FSU as my team alongside the Hokies....When FSU was swooning, VT was pretty strong....FSU is on fire now as VT swoons....
For Hokies...please understand, change can happen and it will be a good thing.... The FSU experience and brand has been completely reinvigorated with Jimbo and the winning team....seeing Tallahassee the way it is reminds me of the glory days when the Hokies were relevant.... I never understood why we have to hit absolute rock bottom in order for changes to occur....the losses go far beyond a regular season or two.....recruiting suffers alongside it all....and it takes years to recover...
Keep the faith is all I can say that one day it will happen.....I just hope we still have Bud around when it does......
The irony here is that I am a Hokie actually now living in Tallahassee with a son here in college at FSU. I have adopted FSU as my team alongside the Hokies....When FSU was swooning, VT was pretty strong....FSU is on fire now as VT swoons....
For Hokies...please understand, change can happen and it will be a good thing.... The FSU experience and brand has been completely reinvigorated with Jimbo and the winning team....seeing Tallahassee the way it is reminds me of the glory days when the Hokies were relevant.... I never understood why we have to hit absolute rock bottom in order for changes to occur....the losses go far beyond a regular season or two.....recruiting suffers alongside it all....and it takes years to recover...
Keep the faith is all I can say that one day it will happen.....I just hope we still have Bud around when it does......
Agree with all of your points except one
Do not do anything different for our defensive staff. It works and as a whole, this is the best defensive staff in America. We are only recruiting decent on the defensive side of the ball because of our D staff. The recruiting should be down on defense and O based on where the program is, but because of our defensive staff, we continue to get good defensive players and our defense is still among the best in the nation year in and year out. I will repeat, Virginia Tech has an offensive problem and a head coaching problem. Literally dichotomous with our O and D. Foster and Wiles and T Gray are Excellent.
This post was edited on 12/10 6:16 PM by lucustookis
Do not do anything different for our defensive staff. It works and as a whole, this is the best defensive staff in America. We are only recruiting decent on the defensive side of the ball because of our D staff. The recruiting should be down on defense and O based on where the program is, but because of our defensive staff, we continue to get good defensive players and our defense is still among the best in the nation year in and year out. I will repeat, Virginia Tech has an offensive problem and a head coaching problem. Literally dichotomous with our O and D. Foster and Wiles and T Gray are Excellent.
This post was edited on 12/10 6:16 PM by lucustookis
Ya don't say? LOL. Boy....didn't see that coming
Turn off the recruiting psych folks. Yes I wrote the word psych instead of site. by reading some posts on this website and TSL you would think it was 50/50. Common sense folks. He was never 50/50 from June.
Turn off the recruiting psych folks. Yes I wrote the word psych instead of site. by reading some posts on this website and TSL you would think it was 50/50. Common sense folks. He was never 50/50 from June.
You mean level of play on the field matters? wow?
According to some Hokie fans, it's about the ability to sale a kid. For example, Bud's personality just does not seem right, lol. I never thought about the current level of play on the field or winning? That is interesting. I thought it was still 1980 and recruiting was like a used car salesman trying to sale a kid something and bond with him and his parents. lol. Lee I agree with your post by the way. I am making the jab at some Hokie fans who actually think recruiting is all about "bonding" with the kid and thinking that the level of play on the field and winning hold little weight. Clearly..the system and draft chances and level of play hold More weight. For example, the coach of Tulane could have called and visited Sweat every day for two years and recruited him as hard as possible and could have been best friends with his parents. It would not matter. The draft chances and winning of Alabama outweigh the bonding and all of the hard work or visits to the living room. 1980 is over. This is the part that some of the older Hokie fans just can not understand. They simply can not grasp this concept. This is why Foster still recruits well. Virginia Tech still gets the average four 4 star players per year on defense which gives them about a 15th ranked defensive recruiting class every year and with Foster at coach they often are a top 10 defense. Offensively, just the opposite. We miss on the 5 stars because of the overall state of the program. Foster and his defensive prowess and success and all of the Virginia Tech defensive draft choices is not enough to overcome five star defensive players. When you are talking about five star players, the overall state of the program trumps everything. As for four star players, this is where Foster and his prowess still lands recruits yet many will say he can not recruit. They are nuts.
According to some Hokie fans, it's about the ability to sale a kid. For example, Bud's personality just does not seem right, lol. I never thought about the current level of play on the field or winning? That is interesting. I thought it was still 1980 and recruiting was like a used car salesman trying to sale a kid something and bond with him and his parents. lol. Lee I agree with your post by the way. I am making the jab at some Hokie fans who actually think recruiting is all about "bonding" with the kid and thinking that the level of play on the field and winning hold little weight. Clearly..the system and draft chances and level of play hold More weight. For example, the coach of Tulane could have called and visited Sweat every day for two years and recruited him as hard as possible and could have been best friends with his parents. It would not matter. The draft chances and winning of Alabama outweigh the bonding and all of the hard work or visits to the living room. 1980 is over. This is the part that some of the older Hokie fans just can not understand. They simply can not grasp this concept. This is why Foster still recruits well. Virginia Tech still gets the average four 4 star players per year on defense which gives them about a 15th ranked defensive recruiting class every year and with Foster at coach they often are a top 10 defense. Offensively, just the opposite. We miss on the 5 stars because of the overall state of the program. Foster and his defensive prowess and success and all of the Virginia Tech defensive draft choices is not enough to overcome five star defensive players. When you are talking about five star players, the overall state of the program trumps everything. As for four star players, this is where Foster and his prowess still lands recruits yet many will say he can not recruit. They are nuts.
Re: Agee with all of your points except one
Unfortunately you need to be good on both sides of the ball to routinely lure 5 star recruits (and strong 4's) away from FSU on either side. Until they can see VT change its MO on offense it doesn't matter how good Bud's defenses are, we will continue to (maybe) get our one 5 star recruit every three years or so and FSU will continue to pluck most of the rest of them. By and large, 5 star recruits want to go where they will be in the national limelight and compete in national championship playoff games, they don't give a shit about Military bowls.
Unfortunately you need to be good on both sides of the ball to routinely lure 5 star recruits (and strong 4's) away from FSU on either side. Until they can see VT change its MO on offense it doesn't matter how good Bud's defenses are, we will continue to (maybe) get our one 5 star recruit every three years or so and FSU will continue to pluck most of the rest of them. By and large, 5 star recruits want to go where they will be in the national limelight and compete in national championship playoff games, they don't give a shit about Military bowls.
Re: Agee with all of your points except one
So you guys are saying VT shouldn't recruit the 5 star kids because you got no shot.......that about right? Bud is a great coach but I'm not sold he's a great recruiter. I think you guys give Bud a pass on recruiting, word I get is he doesn't like it or put the real time into recruiting that he should. I do think he is a great DC but I don't get why big time defensive players aren't lining up to play for him.....something doesn't add up and it was this way before you went to the Military Bowl.
So you guys are saying VT shouldn't recruit the 5 star kids because you got no shot.......that about right? Bud is a great coach but I'm not sold he's a great recruiter. I think you guys give Bud a pass on recruiting, word I get is he doesn't like it or put the real time into recruiting that he should. I do think he is a great DC but I don't get why big time defensive players aren't lining up to play for him.....something doesn't add up and it was this way before you went to the Military Bowl.
Re: Agee with all of your points except one
All I'm saying is be realistic when we lose a recruit like Sweat. Nobody should be remotely surprised he chose FSU and not us. If we want to reverse some of this trend then we need to resign ourselves to defining and taking actions in the program that will make a positive impact on the situation. To me its starts with the offense and how that impacts everything else from recruiting to declining wins to which bowls we are now going to. Sending out underperforming offenses year after year won't get us there.
All I'm saying is be realistic when we lose a recruit like Sweat. Nobody should be remotely surprised he chose FSU and not us. If we want to reverse some of this trend then we need to resign ourselves to defining and taking actions in the program that will make a positive impact on the situation. To me its starts with the offense and how that impacts everything else from recruiting to declining wins to which bowls we are now going to. Sending out underperforming offenses year after year won't get us there.
well all a hokie fan has to say to a hoos fan 11 in a row 15 out of 16 they just freeze up when seeing VT on that helmet!!
Taking coaching staff to Tim's house might work, but I think we have a better chance of getting Shelton Johnson if we can just have Maddy and Dadi to go visit their old high school and have a talk with him over the holidays. You never know....
Re: Agee with all of your points except one
Wilson, Williams, and Logan, and all went on to be NFL draft picks. Kind of destroys your "offenses fault" theory, doesn't it?
You want to know what really impacts our recruiting? Especially with defensive stars like Sweat? How about the fact that the last 4 NFL drafts, we have had a respectable 7
offensive guys drafted (2 QBs, 2 RBs, 2 WRs, 1 OL), but only 4 defensive guys drafted, and all were cornerbacks!!! That is correct. We have not had a LB or DL guy drafted the last 4 years. By comparison, FSU has had 11
defensive players drafted the past 2 NFL drafts, and 8 played DL or LB.
Seems like this would make it pretty easy to recruit against us for the
big time Virginia recruits like Sweat who most likely plan on an NFL
future, and it is safe to say our offense has nothing to do with it.
Here we go again. Yet another thing for you to blame the offense for. Interesting how you want to blame our offense for our missing out on defensive recruits when our offense over the years has not prevented us from getting some highly ranked offensive recruits. Since 07, we landed top offensive recruits in Tyrod,
Wilson, Williams, and Logan, and all went on to be NFL draft picks. Kind of destroys your "offenses fault" theory, doesn't it?
You want to know what really impacts our recruiting? Especially with defensive stars like Sweat? How about the fact that the last 4 NFL drafts, we have had a respectable 7
offensive guys drafted (2 QBs, 2 RBs, 2 WRs, 1 OL), but only 4 defensive guys drafted, and all were cornerbacks!!! That is correct. We have not had a LB or DL guy drafted the last 4 years. By comparison, FSU has had 11
defensive players drafted the past 2 NFL drafts, and 8 played DL or LB.
Seems like this would make it pretty easy to recruit against us for the
big time Virginia recruits like Sweat who most likely plan on an NFL
future, and it is safe to say our offense has nothing to do with it.
Re: Agee with all of your points except one
How do you know what factors do or don't impact our ability to compete with FSU for these highly rated Virginia recruits? There are a lot of reasons FSU continues to take these recruits out of our back yard. Easier road to the NFL for the linemen? Maybe. If they are getting the better players in the first place that would contribute, don't you think? I won't tell you its not a factor. But to say its "safe to say our offense has nothing to do with it"? Are they going to the playoffs and we are going to the Military bowl? Why are we in the Military Bowl? Do you think the offense didn't have anything to do with that either? You don't think 5 star recruits care about that? If we want to make any improvement to this situation we need to do anything we can to sell the recruits on VT. Competing at a high level is a factor whether you want to admit it or not. Our offense has not been competing at a high level. The Military Bowl is not high level.
Re: Agee with all of your points except one
You ask how do I know what factors make a guy choose FSU over us? I do not know exactly what these recruits are thinking, but what I do know is FSU has tradition, national titles, and impressive facilities, and I think tradition, facilities, and location are the main reasons we do not get the 5 stars. The problem is there is very little we can do to change this. Also, I think some guys could be focused on how many guys get drafted. Can we change this? Well, while it is strange to have one of the best DCs out there, and consistently have good defenses, but go through 4 NFL drafts and not have a LB or DL guy drafted, no, we should not expect to have as many draft picks as FSU, and there is not a lot we can do to change this either.
You mentioned FSU is going to the playoffs and we are going to the Military Bowl, but when we were going to BCS bowls and FSU was going to lesser bowls, it was FSU who still had the better recruiting classes. Why? Well, an 8 win FSU is still an FSU with tradition, national titles, facilities, and, yes, warm weather, which is a factor with some recruits, while an 11 win VT is still a VT with little tradition, middle of the ACC facilities, and a location that some recruits are not excited about.
Back to our offense, we had 3 of our lowest ranked offenses from 06-08, but, despite this, we landed Tyrod in 07, Williams in 08, and Wilson and Logan in 09. Then, we had 3 top 50 offenses from 09-11, but many on here said our recruiting took a step back starting in 2010. Add it up, and it seems our offense has had very little effect on our recruiting.
As far as winning is concerned, our recruiting has been about the same for well over a decade. I have heard some say it has gotten better with the changes, and I have heard others say we are struggling now because it has gotten worse, but the bottom line is we usually get about 4-7 four star guys, a rare 5 star like Tyrod or Fuller, and end up around 20-25 overall in recruiting whether we are winning 10 games or winning 7 or 8.
I just don't see why people expect us to do better than that. From a tradition, facilities, and location standpoint, we overachieve, if anything, in recruiting, and our coaches should get credit for this, not criticism.
You ask how do I know what factors make a guy choose FSU over us? I do not know exactly what these recruits are thinking, but what I do know is FSU has tradition, national titles, and impressive facilities, and I think tradition, facilities, and location are the main reasons we do not get the 5 stars. The problem is there is very little we can do to change this. Also, I think some guys could be focused on how many guys get drafted. Can we change this? Well, while it is strange to have one of the best DCs out there, and consistently have good defenses, but go through 4 NFL drafts and not have a LB or DL guy drafted, no, we should not expect to have as many draft picks as FSU, and there is not a lot we can do to change this either.
You mentioned FSU is going to the playoffs and we are going to the Military Bowl, but when we were going to BCS bowls and FSU was going to lesser bowls, it was FSU who still had the better recruiting classes. Why? Well, an 8 win FSU is still an FSU with tradition, national titles, facilities, and, yes, warm weather, which is a factor with some recruits, while an 11 win VT is still a VT with little tradition, middle of the ACC facilities, and a location that some recruits are not excited about.
Back to our offense, we had 3 of our lowest ranked offenses from 06-08, but, despite this, we landed Tyrod in 07, Williams in 08, and Wilson and Logan in 09. Then, we had 3 top 50 offenses from 09-11, but many on here said our recruiting took a step back starting in 2010. Add it up, and it seems our offense has had very little effect on our recruiting.
As far as winning is concerned, our recruiting has been about the same for well over a decade. I have heard some say it has gotten better with the changes, and I have heard others say we are struggling now because it has gotten worse, but the bottom line is we usually get about 4-7 four star guys, a rare 5 star like Tyrod or Fuller, and end up around 20-25 overall in recruiting whether we are winning 10 games or winning 7 or 8.
I just don't see why people expect us to do better than that. From a tradition, facilities, and location standpoint, we overachieve, if anything, in recruiting, and our coaches should get credit for this, not criticism.
A struggling O most certainly CAN effect recruiting for the D, and for proof I give you the FSU program in the early 2000's. We were in the exact same situation you currently find yourselves in. A head coach WAY past his time that didn't realize it. He hired his inept son on the O staff (sound familiar) and our O was just that, offensive. We still had Mickey Andrews as the D coordinator so we kept getting good D recruits, for a while anyway. If you watched any of our game from that time they were constantly saying what a shame it was that we had a championship D and a high school O. After a few years of those comments the D recruits started to dry up and we were a mess.
The ACC needs somebody to step up and look like they care about football. Frank Beamer was that man 20-years ago, but not today. Now I read that Foster is unhappy and looking to leave? He's all you have left to attract any decent recruits. Time for VT fans to decide if they are a fan of the program or of a person. VT existed way before FB was named coach and will exist well after he is gone. It's up to you to decide when enough is enough.
The ACC needs somebody to step up and look like they care about football. Frank Beamer was that man 20-years ago, but not today. Now I read that Foster is unhappy and looking to leave? He's all you have left to attract any decent recruits. Time for VT fans to decide if they are a fan of the program or of a person. VT existed way before FB was named coach and will exist well after he is gone. It's up to you to decide when enough is enough.
Bud Fosters defense is somewhat unorthodox, where speed and technique trumps size. The only true position on the field is DB and I dont think that is out of necessity but design due to the pressure Bud likes to put on QBs. Very few teams have 260lb DTs, 230lb DEs and 220lb MLBs...but very few teams pressure a QB the way Bud does either.
I might be wrong but I always thought that played a big role in us struggling to get elite MLBs and DTs but helped us land the better OLBs and DBs. If you look at some of our best defensive players over the years...Moore, Hall, Adabi etc...they were all fast and athletic but not necessarily big.
I might be wrong but I always thought that played a big role in us struggling to get elite MLBs and DTs but helped us land the better OLBs and DBs. If you look at some of our best defensive players over the years...Moore, Hall, Adabi etc...they were all fast and athletic but not necessarily big.
Re: Agee with all of your points except one
pckank1, come on, you have to know the reasons. It's the glitz and glammer, the television, the exposure, the quickest way to the NFL, espn, and all the notoriety you get from playing at select schools you do not get for playing at VT. It's not about playing for a home school, getting a good education, or playing close to friends and that stuff anymore. It's about the glitz and the glammer. It's about being in the spotlight. That's all. We are no longer, if in fact we ever really were, a spotlight program.
pckank1, come on, you have to know the reasons. It's the glitz and glammer, the television, the exposure, the quickest way to the NFL, espn, and all the notoriety you get from playing at select schools you do not get for playing at VT. It's not about playing for a home school, getting a good education, or playing close to friends and that stuff anymore. It's about the glitz and the glammer. It's about being in the spotlight. That's all. We are no longer, if in fact we ever really were, a spotlight program.
Sweat is not offense. He went to FSU. Taylor is not offense. He went to FSU. Levenberry is not offense, he went to FSU. Nnadi is not offense, he went to FSU. Got any other theories?
As Bobby used to say, It ain't about the X's and O's, it's about the Jimmy's and Joe's. That is as true today as it ever was. Even if FB was still on top of his game and an excellent X's and O's guy, if he can't recruit you are going nowhere.
I don't understand why people think we do not recruit well. I think we overachieve just about every year. We are currently 20th overall in rivals' rankings, and look at who we are ahead of:
Ark., WVU, Oklahoma, Louisville, Wisky, UNC, ASU, GT, Arizona, Ky., Nebraska, UVA, TCU, BC, and Mich. St. are the teams ranked 21-35, and it can be easily argued that this is the tier we belong in, not the tier with FSU, Ohio St., Bama, USC, Texas, LSU, Oregon, etc. So, when compared to our peers, and keeping things realistic, not only do we do well, but we do better than pretty much all of them.
Ark., WVU, Oklahoma, Louisville, Wisky, UNC, ASU, GT, Arizona, Ky., Nebraska, UVA, TCU, BC, and Mich. St. are the teams ranked 21-35, and it can be easily argued that this is the tier we belong in, not the tier with FSU, Ohio St., Bama, USC, Texas, LSU, Oregon, etc. So, when compared to our peers, and keeping things realistic, not only do we do well, but we do better than pretty much all of them.
Similar threads
