Nobody has a problem when Bud Foster gets the unranked Daddis and walk-on Grimms and coaches them up in his system to make a top25 defense. Yet on offense If the new coaches arent ace recruiters we are in trouble. Is it not possible to do the same thing on offense that Bud does on defense? Is the only path to offensive success to recruit enough elite talent to overcome/offset the conservative philosophy and incompetant play calling? You guys have been Beamerballed to damn death to the point of not knowing any other way of doing things.
A Fuente-Foster marriage question for you Xs & Os guys
- Thread starter Salemite
- Start date
Sure, players must develop (if they can), but...we cannot rely on the "coach-em-up-myth."
Without talent equal to or greater than the opposition, no coach EVER wins consistently. Not ever.
Bud has had great Ds not just b/c he's great (which he is), but because he's had great talent to go with it.
Rarely ever has he been forced to field complete sacks of @#$% like we have at times on O, esp OL.
When Bud has those guys, even he cannot hide them. That's when the "Bud has lost it" nuts come out.
We cannot rely on coaching people up for two or three years to build a team that will compete in the ACC of tomorrow. Not sayng we can't recruit 2* players if we know they have the ability to come in here and play. The players we recruit now have to have the talent when they get here and with one or less years will be contributing.
The reason we have never had a lot of depth in the past is because no one was ready behind the starter because we were trying to let them get ripe enough to play. Diferent world.
We are either going to have to recruit successfully against all teams or get out of the market.
The reason we have never had a lot of depth in the past is because no one was ready behind the starter because we were trying to let them get ripe enough to play. Diferent world.
We are either going to have to recruit successfully against all teams or get out of the market.
I have a hard time believing Fuente wont try to get the best recruits possible. But If he thinks a 2star or 3star best fits a need, Im going with what he thinks over who a recruiting service thinks we need.
You are right; I worded it poorly. What I meant was the myth that you can win championships (presumably what we want) merely by coaching up teams that don't also come with high recruiting rankings. That is what never happens. Ever. That I stand by.
Well, there is a direct correlation between recruiting rankings and National Championships so I see your point.
This is absolutely correct - and I would add in those jet sweeps that everyone hated. We couldn't run between the tackles and we couldn't establish enough of a pocket for a decent passing game to stretch the field.
When anyone blames Loeffler for being a terrible OC, I have to shake my head and think to myself that they don't really understand how little there has been to work with over the last couple of years.
Maybe he wasn't great but he wasn't as bad as some people want to believe.
The Auburn 2012 team had an abundance of talent and Loeffler couldnt generate offense. Hes actually struggled to generate offense everywhere hes been including Temple where the Owls were 5-4 (even with Bernard Pierce) before Adazio stepped in and changed the offense and QB. The owls never lost another game that season.
By Novemeber 2016 I predict you will see just how much talent we have on offense at VT for a coach that knows what hes doing and can develope players and most importantly attacks on offense.
Our QB situation was horrid this past year and our OL worse. We lacked (and still do) an NFL-quality WR and an NFL-quality RB. If we improve significantly on O this coming year, it will be b/c 1) we have a better QB, 2) we find another WR, 3) our OL improves, and 4) Travon takes a big step forward.
There is a hard correlation between national championships and recruiting ratings. Unfortunately there's a cutoff at anointed programs that regularly achieve those kind of recruiting ratings, ratings which we have never realized. At which it becomes imperative that we have a coaching staff with great player evaluation and coach up skill.
I tend to agree.I expect Fuente to do on offense what we have always done on defense-player evaluation and developement with a roster of 3stars, a few 4stars and a suprise 5star every so often.
Not sure why anyone would expect this huge influx in recruiting. Even at the height of Beamers career we couldnt recruit with the perenial powerhouses of college football.
Beamer did really well for the game in his time but as it changed he did not change with it. Bud was really taxed at defending a high scoring offenses without getting his guys gassed. As they became gassed we gave up more and more points and we lost more and more games because the Beamer O had recruited even poorer than normal. This slide started years ago.
Justin Fuente may be a great build them up coach on O but he will never be able to win big time unless he recruits to it.
Our D recruiting is going to have to pick up also. A spread scores and leaves the field and a D that has little or no depth will get gassed every time.
I personally belive that Justin will realize this (probablt already has) and make whatever moves he has to make (if any) to make VT a success. Success IMO is not winning 8 to 10 games and going to what can be a Rice Krispies Bowl game.
Justin Fuente may be a great build them up coach on O but he will never be able to win big time unless he recruits to it.
Our D recruiting is going to have to pick up also. A spread scores and leaves the field and a D that has little or no depth will get gassed every time.
I personally belive that Justin will realize this (probablt already has) and make whatever moves he has to make (if any) to make VT a success. Success IMO is not winning 8 to 10 games and going to what can be a Rice Krispies Bowl game.
"why anyone would expect this huge influx in recruiting"
Few, if any, expect an immediate jump to a top 5 recruiting class, but a lot of people share a vision of something more than what you appear to (I may be misreading you). VT needs vision, big vision, and maybe bigger than we've had before -- war to the trophy case. Here's why I think we have and should have the loftiest expectations:
- Because we were once in position to break through
- Because we ratcheted down when we should have ramped up
- Because we believe VT can get in position to break through again
- Because we are unsatisfied with being a near miss
- Because we demand excellence
- Because we learn from our mistakes
With all respect, you do not know that to be true, and I admit I do not know it to be false. What we do know (or should know by now) is we never gave it our best shot. I love Frank to a fault, I guess, but here is where I am maybe even censorious of his leadership. We were in a position to do what few get a chance to do: break through into the elite status. We failed and, imo, we failed by default. Maybe it is impossible to break through. Maybe it is beyond VT's reach. Or maybe, and this is what I think, maybe we failed because we gave a half-ass, unwise, almost self-satisfied effort in the one area you can never let slide -- recruiting.
You guys are completely dismissing the impact of a creative offense and offense minded coach that gets the most out of his players (a byproduct of decades of land a 5star QB or struggle on offense). Depending on next years QB play, I think we have enough talent right now to produce a top 25 offense. Put that with a Bud Foster top25 defense and I think were in business.
I've said all I need to say. Let's just pull for success however we see it.
True. At least we are debating on HOW we are going to rise back to relevance. Could be worse.
We have more than enough talent to score on Wake Forest with competent coaching. No one on this board will ever convince me otherwise.
Since I one of the guys yakking I will say that we definitely all want the same thing, a highly successful FB program. I think we will be pleasently surprised.
