The biggest lie at VT since 2014.."Bud can't recruit."

[lucustookis]

You know me. The claim I made above will be supported with facts and very...very..little emotion.

1. I am perplexed how ignorant SOME people are. Its incredible how a person hears the words, " Bud can't recruit," then they actually believe it without any fact checking, then they are ignorant enough to repeat it to others ten times.

2. Fact 1. I placed on this board last year a review of VTs defensive recruiting rank since 2001. Notice I wrote...Defensive Recruiting. One can actually take the overall recruiting class ranking, then weigh the recruit ranking of each player, then separate this from the overall mean recruiting ranking as a class, and get a recruiting ranking for the defense, and one for the offense. It's not complicated math folks. Its Statistics 101.

Fact 2. The Defensive recruiting classes at VT since 2002 have averaged 15th in America. From 2011-2015, the last five years, VT has averaged 23rd in America in OVERALL recruiting. During these 5 years, our Defensive recruiting has averaged 12th in America and O recruiting averaging 34th. Think about these numbers.

Fact 3. I know, 2016 incoming class will rank around 42nd in overall recruiting and are below average and someone will take a one year sample for the 2015 linebackers and ignorantly say, "Bud can't recruit LBs." Fact is....did you know that Edmund's was a four star LB and was moved to offense. Did you know than Devon Van Dyke was a four star and All American and suffered career ending injuries. Those two would be 1 and 2 on the depth chart in the middle right now if things would have been different.

Another fact.....The last five years....not this yr, but 2011-15, VT has averaged 13th in America in Defensive Efficiency and three of those five years we were top 10 and all of them top 25. This fact also disproves the emotional, but tactless claim that our " D is getting worse."

Final Fact. There is no data to support Foster can not recruit. It is quite the opposite. The problem has been on the offensive side of the ball where the supposedly great recruiter in Stinespring is once again, struggling. The numbers support this. Now, you can argue that Foster is not the one recruiting defensively and other coaches are. That's fine, but even if true....it does not matter because he is the boss or CEO of the defense. They are getting it done. More important, I don't think many people understand the importance of having a winning defense and great scheme on the field related to recruiting. That is key in recruiting and our D recruits itself. The same applies offensively. We can not recruit offensively because of our O scheme and historical performances as a unit.

 

[Flashman]

Your rant here sounds similar to one made by Rafael Benitez a few years back. Look it up.

 

[lucustookis]

Your rant here sounds similar to one made by Rafael Benitez a few years back. Look it up.

An incredible response you make full of ignorance but sadly so par for the course In the USA of 2015 in which.........facts are meaningless and trumped by emotion. Claims supported by facts are now labeled "rants." The scary part........you get to actually vote and give zero....absolutely ZERO data to counter my claim other than a useless personal red herring.

 

[Hoos19NC]

Bud can coach but I don't remember a ton of 4 and 5 star kids flocking to play for him.....but I could be wrong. Maybe you can list these great recruits and refresh our memory....it has always seemed to me that Bud took all all these 3 star kids and built a great defense, sprinkle in a few 4 or 5's over the years but not enough to call him a great recruiter.

 

[lucustookis]

Bud can coach but I don't remember a ton of 4 and 5 star kids flocking to play for him.....but I could be wrong. Maybe you can list these great recruits and refresh our memory....it has always seemed to me that Bud took all all these 3 star kids and built a great defense, sprinkle in a few 4 or 5's over the years but not enough to call him a great recruiter.

I just literally wrote

Bud can coach but I don't remember a ton of 4 and 5 star kids flocking to play for him.....but I could be wrong. Maybe you can list these great recruits and refresh our memory....it has always seemed to me that Bud took all all these 3 star kids and built a great defense, sprinkle in a few 4 or 5's over the years but not enough to call him a great recruiter.

Who is "our" as in plural? You ask for me to refresh "our" memory? Do you mean.....refresh YOUR memory? Did the board get together and have a meeting and elect you "boardrep"? Anyway...I literally just wrote our Defensive recruiting class rankings. I mean........Dear God....I just wrote the rankings and you ask about how many four stars then ask for the list of them? Thiink about this for a second. If you average 15th in Defensive Recruiting since 2002 and 12th in America the last five years, don't you think we've got enough? Understand the amount of four star recruits goes into the defensive recruiting rankings. Therefore, in order to rank where we have in defensive recruiting......I think we have had enough. Otherwise, we would not rank that high defensively in recruiting.

 

[Hoos19NC]

My apologies....your first rant was so long I lost interest, my bad.

 

[vt1hokie]

Lucus is right guys. We're loaded right now with Hand, Nnandi, Davis, Tolliver, and Sweat.
Oh wait!

The TRUTH is Bud is not the reason our defense had recruited even OK. A simple search of who Bud ACTUALLY recruited would show you that most of the players responsible for the highly rated classes were recruited by Wiles, Stinespring, and Gray. Of course, who actually recruited the players doesn't fit your failed narrative does it?

Current starters recruited BY BUD are Ekanem (solid), McMillian (really good pickup), Motuapuaka (god-awful) and Teller (solid). Hmm, no great linebackers on that list.

Torrian Gray: 5* Kendall Fuller, Brandon Facyson, Adonis Alexander, Chuck Clarke, and Greg Stroman. He also got our blue chip lineman in Tim Settle. If you go to all-time recruits then it really gets embarrassing for Bud.

I would put Stinespring's recruits here too but it wouldn't be fair to rub it in.

The ACTUAL TRUTH is that Bud Foster has not signed more than 3 players in a class that he was primary recruiter for in the last 4 years.

 

[Salemite]

Lucus is right guys. We're loaded right now with Hand, Nnandi, Davis, Tolliver, and Sweat.
Oh wait!

The TRUTH is Bud is not the reason our defense had recruited even OK. A simple search of who Bud ACTUALLY recruited would show you that most of the players responsible for the highly rated classes were recruited by Wiles, Stinespring, and Gray. Of course, who actually recruited the players doesn't fit your failed narrative does it?

Current starters recruited BY BUD are Ekanem (solid), McMillian (really good pickup), Motuapuaka (god-awful) and Teller (solid). Hmm, no great linebackers on that list.

Torrian Gray: 5* Kendall Fuller, Brandon Facyson, Adonis Alexander, Chuck Clarke, and Greg Stroman. He also got our blue chip lineman in Tim Settle. If you go to all-time recruits then it really gets embarrassing for Bud.

I would put Stinespring's recruits here too but it wouldn't be fair to rub it in.

The ACTUAL TRUTH is that Bud Foster has not signed more than 3 players in a class that he was primary recruiter for in the last 4 years.

^^^^^ this ^^^^^

 

[Salemite]

You know me. The claim I made above will be supported with facts and very...very..little emotion.

1. I am perplexed how ignorant SOME people are. Its incredible how a person hears the words, " Bud can't recruit," then they actually believe it without any fact checking, then they are ignorant enough to repeat it to others ten times.

2. Fact 1. I placed on this board last year a review of VTs defensive recruiting rank since 2001. Notice I wrote...Defensive Recruiting. One can actually take the overall recruiting class ranking, then weigh the recruit ranking of each player, then separate this from the overall mean recruiting ranking as a class, and get a recruiting ranking for the defense, and one for the offense. It's not complicated math folks. Its Statistics 101.

Fact 2. The Defensive recruiting classes at VT since 2002 have averaged 15th in America. From 2011-2015, the last five years, VT has averaged 23rd in America in OVERALL recruiting. During these 5 years, our Defensive recruiting has averaged 12th in America and O recruiting averaging 34th. Think about these numbers.

Fact 3. I know, 2016 incoming class will rank around 42nd in overall recruiting and are below average and someone will take a one year sample for the 2015 linebackers and ignorantly say, "Bud can't recruit LBs." Fact is....did you know that Edmund's was a four star LB and was moved to offense. Did you know than Devon Van Dyke was a four star and All American and suffered career ending injuries. Those two would be 1 and 2 on the depth chart in the middle right now if things would have been different.

Another fact.....The last five years....not this yr, but 2011-15, VT has averaged 13th in America in Defensive Efficiency and three of those five years we were top 10 and all of them top 25. This fact also disproves the emotional, but tactless claim that our " D is getting worse."

Final Fact. There is no data to support Foster can not recruit. It is quite the opposite. The problem has been on the offensive side of the ball where the supposedly great recruiter in Stinespring is once again, struggling. The numbers support this. Now, you can argue that Foster is not the one recruiting defensively and other coaches are. That's fine, but even if true....it does not matter because he is the boss or CEO of the defense. They are getting it done. More important, I don't think many people understand the importance of having a winning defense and great scheme on the field related to recruiting. That is key in recruiting and our D recruits itself. The same applies offensively. We can not recruit offensively because of our O scheme and historical performances as a unit.

Epic Fail.

1. You made not a single argument to suggest Bud is a good recruiter. Not one.
2. You blame our O-scheme for recruiting woes and imply our "great" D-scheme recruits itself. Congratulations! You have that exactly backwards. We employ essentially the same O scheme as Saban and Richt, both of whom have been known to sign the occasional talent on O.
3. Our D scheme, on the other hand, has been at least partly responsible for our struggle to sign top flight DE/LB talent.

I'm not sure you understand how recruiting works at VT. The fact that a defensive talent is signed does not suggest Bud did a great job of recruiting. It only suggests someone did. Lacking all industry, the merely curious can click their way to discovering who the primary recruiter was for any given player, and sometimes even the extent to which others coaches tag-teamed.

Look, Bud is a great DC. I don't think you can make an alternative argument that will pass a straight face test. It make s sense that people feel a debt to him; he led the backbone of our team during times it was the only bone in the body. I even get being a bit defensive when his suitability for HC is questioned. I just don't think you can make a case CBF is a great recruiter, but everyone knows the case has been made that great recruiters are what we need.

 

[Hoos19NC]

Epic Fail.

1. You made not a single argument to suggest Bud is a good recruiter. Not one.
2. You blame our O-scheme for recruiting woes and imply our "great" D-scheme recruits itself. Congratulations! You have that exactly backwards. We employ essentially the same O scheme as Saban and Richt, both of whom have been known to sign the occasional talent on O.
3. Our D scheme, on the other hand, has been at least partly responsible for our struggle to sign top flight DE/LB talent.

I'm not sure you understand how recruiting works at VT. The fact that a defensive talent is signed does not suggest Bud did a great job of recruiting. It only suggests someone did. Lacking all industry, the merely curious can click their way to discovering who the primary recruiter was for any given player, and sometimes even the extent to which others coaches tag-teamed.

Look, Bud is a great DC. I don't think you can make an alternative argument that will pass a straight face test. It make s sense that people feel a debt to him; he led the backbone of our team during times it was the only bone in the body. I even get being a bit defensive when his suitability for HC is questioned. I just don't think you can make a case CBF is a great recruiter, but everyone knows the case has been made that great recruiters are what we need.

Easy guys....there is a list of Buds great recruits!!! I just can't seem to find it. Man is a great coach, let's leave it at that so we don't get a long lecture on how stupid everyone on this board is except Lucas.

 

[Salemite]

Easy guys....there is a list of Buds great recruits!!! I just can't seem to find it. Man is a great coach, let's leave it at that so we don't get a long lecture on how stupid everyone on this board is except Lucas.

Nobody's arguing against his coaching ability -- nor the fact that he's signed some great recruits. I would hope so; he's been here as long as Frank. Thing is, I don't think one can make the case he's the level of recruiter we need. That's all. Nothing more.

If Whit hires Bud, I'll support him.

 

[lucustookis]

Easy guys....there is a list of Buds great recruits!!! I just can't seem to find it. Man is a great coach, let's leave it at that so we don't get a long lecture on how stupid everyone on this board is except Lucas.

You, Salem, and Flash have to get over the fact that changes are coming offensively. Bud will remain on staff. Your boy Stiney will be employed. Don't worry. I think Sussex Central has an opening,lol.

 

[bschroed]

lukoarrogantdodowithoutanysensestookis:

BUD DID NOT RECRUIT MOST OF THEM. HAD HE BEEN ON THE ROAD RECRUITING INSTEAD OF HANGING OUT IN BLACKSBURG, WE MIGHT HAVE HAD SOME GREAT D-LINEMEN ON BOARD INSTEAD OF FSU AND ALABAMA.

 

[MadMaxHokie]

So if Bud went to Alabama their Recuriting would drop significantly. I doubt it. It more than Bud. He problem started when we had to use a TE as QB and a LB as RB. If the O was better better recruits would come.

 

[SunnyBeachWave]

Easy guys....there is a list of Buds great recruits!!! I just can't seem to find it. Man is a great coach, let's leave it at that so we don't get a long lecture on how stupid everyone on this board is except Lucas.

lmao dude you're too funny.

 

[BigDaddyHokie]

I'd be fine if Bud got hired by the next head coach.

 

[VT/UK Rondo]

Bud Foster shouldnt have to go out and recruit, his record speaks for itself. If a kid doesnt know about VT defense, then that kid is probably too stupid to make it in college anyway.
For the love of God who cares If the guy can recruit or not.

 

[vt1hokie]

Bud Foster shouldnt have to go out and recruit, his record speaks for itself. If a kid doesnt know about VT defense, then that kid is probably too stupid to make it in college anyway.
For the love of God who cares If the guy can recruit or not.

^^^^doesn't understand college football^^^^
Kirby Smart has actual national titles and has countless players suiting it up on Sundays. Do you think he sits at home knocking back brews instead of recruiting? Not only no but Hell NO. He's out there busting his butt because he knows that to be great or to maintain a level of greatness that he needs talented players to make it happen. Furthermore, Nick Saban would kick his ass to the curb if he wasn't out there recruiting. No one gives you anything. Sure, there are plenty of two star players that he could sit back and wait for them to roll into him and when he has a job at JMU he can damn well do just that but when you're chasing titles it simply doesn't work that way.

What he has done as a defensive coach here makes him absolutely legendary and he's probably my 3rd favorite coach all-time in any sport but if he doesn't want to recruit then it's time for him to hang it up too or go to the pros. Like it or not, college football IS ALL about recruiting.

 

[RB4]

that kid is probably too stupid to make it in college anyway.

He may be... but he may be a hell of a DL/ LB/CB too. VT's defense has been pretty good (not great) past few years, but when vt was an ELITE D. these kids were 8,9,10 years old so they don't really know. They just hear it from older individuals about the reputation,but they are not really seeing it.

 

[VT/UK Rondo]

^^^^doesn't understand college football^^^^
Kirby Smart has actual national titles and has countless players suiting it up on Sundays. Do you think he sits at home knocking back brews instead of recruiting? Not only no but Hell NO. He's out there busting his butt because he knows that to be great or to maintain a level of greatness that he needs talented players to make it happen. Furthermore, Nick Saban would kick his ass to the curb if he wasn't out there recruiting. No one gives you anything. Sure, there are plenty of two star players that he could sit back and wait for them to roll into him and when he has a job at JMU he can damn well do just that but when you're chasing titles it simply doesn't work that way.

What he has done as a defensive coach here makes him absolutely legendary and he's probably my 3rd favorite coach all-time in any sport but if he doesn't want to recruit then it's time for him to hang it up too or go to the pros. Like it or not, college football IS ALL about recruiting.

I understand college football just fine but the issue is COMMON SENSE. You dont get rid of a coach like Bud Foster simply because recruiting isnt his strongpoint. Thats asinine. Take a look around the Rivals boards at what posters were saying THE MINUTE Beamers retirement was announced. A ton of teams not named Bama were wanting their teams to go after Bud Foster in some form or fashion.
Besides, exactly how hard do you think Kirby Smart has to bust his butt to get a defensive kid to come to Bama? The historical powerhouse programs will always have a recruiting edge over VT no matter how many calls/visits they get from VT and Foster.
Maybe If we get a headcoach not past his prime and a OC thats not a goofball, defensive recruiting might improve.

 

[vt1hokie]

Common Sense? You said Bud shouldn't have to recruit and kids should just line up and come to him. Simply, it doesn't work that way, period! We have missed out on big talent because of his laziness and that is a fact. Recruiting matters. No team has come close to a national title without having at least top 10 recruiting class prior in the last 10+ years. Who knows what kind of run we could have made between 2004-2010 if Bud put 100% into recruiting. The ACC was down with FSU and Miami being disasters. Clemson was an afterthought. The Coastal was even worse than it is now if you can imagine that. There should have been an undefeated season somewhere in there. There was no real effort to get better during that time period and not only by Bud but the whole staff. We haven't gotten much worse than were then but while we were sitting back throwing back beers and relaxing the rest of the ACC got better. FSU is back. Clemson is up. Even Duke is winning. He has to shoulder some responsibility for the slippage too.

 

[bowlingref]

Witnessed the not so good defense played against Duke. The great Bud Foster defense could not stop the quarterback draw. Not a great coaching game in my opinion.

 

[Salemite]

So if Bud went to Alabama their Recuriting would drop significantly. I doubt it. It more than Bud. He problem started when we had to use a TE as QB and a LB as RB. If the O was better better recruits would come.

ewe nede two stuhdee lojik

 

[Salemite]

You, Salem, and Flash have to get over the fact that changes are coming offensively. Bud will remain on staff. Your boy Stiney will be employed. Don't worry. I think Sussex Central has an opening,lol.

 

[VT/UK Rondo]

Common Sense? You said Bud shouldn't have to recruit and kids should just line up and come to him. Simply, it doesn't work that way, period! We have missed out on big talent because of his laziness and that is a fact. Recruiting matters. No team has come close to a national title without having at least top 10 recruiting class prior in the last 10+ years. Who knows what kind of run we could have made between 2004-2010 if Bud put 100% into recruiting. The ACC was down with FSU and Miami being disasters. Clemson was an afterthought. The Coastal was even worse than it is now if you can imagine that. There should have been an undefeated season somewhere in there. There was no real effort to get better during that time period and not only by Bud but the whole staff. We haven't gotten much worse than were then but while we were sitting back throwing back beers and relaxing the rest of the ACC got better. FSU is back. Clemson is up. Even Duke is winning. He has to shoulder some responsibility for the slippage too.

Of course he should recruit, its part of the job and recruiting is the lifeblood of any program but he shouldnt be held to the standard of Alabama or else fired. Hell, last year the Bama OL coach snagged more Defensive players than Kirby Smart. The bulk of recruiting should be on the other coaches...they sure as hell arent busy improving the offense, blocking kicks and returning punts.
I honestly dont know what else you expect the guy to do. "LAZY"? Really? Maybe the next DC at Tech can produce top 25 defenses, evolve the defense to adapt to changing offenses, compensate for the rest of the coaches incompetence, land the 4star Settles, Tellers, Ekanems while not losing the Grants, Hands and Kirvens to the likes of Ohio State, Bama, FSU etc. But I doubt it.

 

[hokiemtc]

Serious question for the recruiting detractors (because I don't know the answer)...what regions has Bud been in charge of recruiting in the past? And how much high level Div I football talent are those regions known to produce?

I've never been a college recruiter before, but I also know you can't squeeze blood out of a turnip. Nick Saban could recruit Gretna all he wanted to, but he's not loading up his roster with 5 star talent while doing so, no matter how hard he worked at it.

 

[zwick99]

Bud can coach but I don't remember a ton of 4 and 5 star kids flocking to play for him.....but I could be wrong. Maybe you can list these great recruits and refresh our memory....it has always seemed to me that Bud took all all these 3 star kids and built a great defense, sprinkle in a few 4 or 5's over the years but not enough to call him a great recruiter.

Nobody gets a ton of 5 stars. Even Alabama and USC only get a handful in a good year.

 

[Hoos19NC]

Nobody gets a ton of 5 stars. Even Alabama and USC only get a handful in a good year.

Nobody gets a ton of 5 stars because there are not that many kids that are rated that high. But take the time to check Alabama and USC's recruits and you will find a lot more 4 and 5 stars than Bud has ever brought to VT.