Bud the Bridesmaid
- Thread starter sknyluv
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Yeah, I heard him say that too and said WTF. Maybe he misunderstood the question or "misspoke"! No way he could have meant that!
Yeah, that's what I said. I wasn't talking about communication among the staff; my comment was about Bud holding hands. If he's a genius, if he's the best, you'd think he'd also be a team player and speak up to help...you know, his team. As for his time, we know it's not been spent recruiting, so he can carve out time to talk with other staff members.
Always find it funny when some barcalounger QB criticizes a HOF coach's knowledge of the game. You know little football and apparently nothing about Frank Beamer. He almost never criticizes his guys publicly and typically gives those sorts of maddening answers. His goal is to give the reporter as little as possible.
You are right about Bud, however. If he can get somebody to recruit for him, he'll be just fine.
For a pretty relevant opinion of Whit's hiring of Fuente, Google the John Feinstein article yesterday in the Washington Post. He seems impressed with the hiring and the timing. Let's face it, there was no easy way for Frank to go out, but I think it was handled as well as it could have been.
How is he a joke? I'm pulling for Riley from OU...but I will support whomever we hire....Dabo Swinney has been called a joke before also..and look what he's done...
Since 1995, Bud has cranked out (11) top 10 defenses ('95,'96,'99,'01,'04,'05,'06,'07,'08,'11,'13), (6) of which were ranked in top 5 in the country and (2) of which ('05,'06) were ranked #1 overall in the country.
Please post the numbers for all those other coaches you mentioned and let's compare them.
Compare conferences...we're the Hokies not in the conference with Temple, Rutgers during some of those years?
Still how is Muschamp a joke? He's being considered for several jobs when Bud can't even get the HC job that he's been pining for for 20 years?
As impressive as Bud has been, that's not really a comprehensive look into his career. I'm not of the opinion that there is this enormous gulf between the other conferences and the ACC/Big East, but I think there is enough that it has to be taken into consideration. Even barring discussions of talent gaps, there is a style of play discrepancy that has to be taken into account. I don't think it's as simple as raw numbers. Some of Bud's worst games have been against OOC foes from the PAC and SEC. This isn't entirely surprising as they are not teams/styles we regularly plan for, but I do think in several of these scenarios Bud was thoroughly out-coached.
Muschamp has had a phenomenal career as a DC. Care to elaborate on this? I doubt many will disagree that as an HC he's in over his head, but he's a great DC.
But during those years we also played some pretty good OOC teams, generally better than the average SEC OOC. Also during those years, we played some pretty darn good Big East/ACC teams. Like Heaks said, I don't think the gulf is nearly as big as some would like to believe.
Absolutely nailed it. For all those who railed about Stiney and Loeffler, it was Frank's offensive direction all along. It was completely on him.
When asked by the prison psychologist if there were anyone in among the 22 Nazis in the prison that could have stood up to Hitler and stopped the madness, Hermann Goering snapped, "Doctor, those people here are all the "yes men." The "No men" are all dead."
To be fair, Muschamp cranked out 9 top 10 defenses since 2003. Chavis had ten since 1995. They are all great DCs...
If Muschamp could get someone like Lincoln Reilly to coach O for him he might make it as a HC. IAlso, iy is very dificult to argue about who is best at this or that because the data is impossible to align for comparison purposes. All of the guys mentioned are damned good.
Dabo at Clemson is one who could've been in over his head...BUT he was smart enough to surround himself with an excellent OC and DC.....and he gets to be the salesperson for the program in media and recruiting...
That my friends is the recipe for success....
That my friends is the recipe for success....
Dont get your panties in a wad fella, I never said Frank Beamer didnt know the game of football, I said he didnt know offense and after not only his many comments but the retention of Stiney over the years and the hiring of Loeffler fresh after two failed stints as OC, I think its obvious Offense just isnt his thing. It wasnt meant to belittle his career, alot of HOF coaches werent exactly offensive gurus.
And spare me the "his goal is to". You dont know any more than I do what his goal is when he interviews. Hes said "were not playing tough and getting after it" a billion times over the years.
I don't know the stats, and I'm not gonna look it up, but I can almost guarantee that Bud matched those other guys top ten d outputs with much less overall talent. Muschamp's d looked terrible this year. For the record, just counting defensive recruits, Auburn has brought in 5-5* and 23-4* in the past 3 yrs (13/14/15).
Idaho put up 34 on Muschamp's d and all those blue chips this year. UNC couldn't put near that on Foster until OT, one of the most potent offenses in the country and loaded with talent, at least much more than Idaho. I know there's a lot more data, tangible and intangible, plus the fact I'm biased, but I'd take Bud over anybody else as a dc. As a recruiter, that's a different story.
Idaho put up 34 on Muschamp's d and all those blue chips this year. UNC couldn't put near that on Foster until OT, one of the most potent offenses in the country and loaded with talent, at least much more than Idaho. I know there's a lot more data, tangible and intangible, plus the fact I'm biased, but I'd take Bud over anybody else as a dc. As a recruiter, that's a different story.
Yeah, I mostly agree with this. Both Stinespring and Loeffler were subpar OCs (Loeffler arguably an awful OC), but Beamer put them in place to do what they did, and Beamer was ultimately responsible for game-planning and superintending the design of the offense.
Did you mean your official opinion is that Stiney was a better oc than Lefty?
If that is indeed your viewpoint, consider the irony that several years ago the overwhelming consensus among VT fans was thee wasn't a worse oc in all the land. Now, tell me Lefty wasn't hired to prove otherwise. I really don't think Frank would ever do anything to hurt the program and that's a dumb thought, but again, that was the most insane hire ever made by an insightful, intelligent coach imo.
For the record, I think Lefty is a better oc but it's certainly a close race between the two. I hope they are both able to find work, just not where it could hurt our recruiting potential.
That is soooo LAME! Surely you can do some research and pick a few more games where the offense played poorly. I get it, the head coach gets all the blame. That said, he must get some credit for all the high scoring games. Here's a bit of information you probably didn't know; Beamer was recruited to Tech as an "All Big South" quarterback out of high school. Maybe he didn't make the best hires for oc's, but to say he does not know offense is just plain stupid. How did your pee wee team do this year on offense?
I repeat...Does not know offense.
Compare talent levels, too. Muschamp and Chavis put up their numbers with top 10 recruiting classes while Bud mostly made do with 2 and 3 star talent.
Now, granted, why the VT D never had better talent is a different argument, and one of the biggest knocks against Bud.
The comparison for Coach Beamer not knowing much about O is not to lay football fans. The statement is made relative to his peers or the other 120+ Head Coaches in FBS. Compared to them, he is at the bottom offensively regarding his x and o ability. Additionally, whether he knows about offense or how much or how little he knows doesn't matter much. His performance offensively matters and he has not done that well.
David Teel broke down Tech's recruiting since 2000 in article last year. He wrote that our D has had top 15 talent well over the last decade and our O has had top 35 talent for an overall team average of about 25th. If he's correct, I'm not so sure our D hasn't been pretty talented if it's indeed top 15.
It's a crap shoot to me. As Cavgator basically said, we'll never really know regarding Stinespring vs. Loeffler because so much is basically Beamer's call. Stinespring had some of the best talent VT has ever seen and still was underwhelming. Loeffler has had nothing to work with, but if I don't see another off-tackle run out of shotgun to our FB ever again it will be too soon.
That's interesting...and the results on the field would certainly suggest there's something to it.
I agree that both Stiney and Loeffler were doing Franks bidding when they were OC's but enough already. I believe that left to their own devices they would still have sucked as O'C's. This is an argument that will never be proven one way or the other.
Frank Beamer knows offense. His couching theory worked. His talent shrunk,we got lazy, we lost games.
Frank Beamer knows offense. His couching theory worked. His talent shrunk,we got lazy, we lost games.
Yeah, I don't disagree at all with this. Neither of them are close to FBS OC material. That said, I think the grind-and-pound is just Beamer's M.O. and even with a competent OC I think they'd be hamstrung.
I wish rules makers would tweak rules so as to prevent teams from being "ground and pound" teams. I wish Spread was only legal offense. (high school and college)
It will be interesting to see If those posters who think Frank Beamer knew offense will feel the same way after a season or two under Fuente. Im sorry but offense should be more than 3 runs and a punt or a duel threat QB running around trying to make plays with his feet. With the new coaching staff and retained coaching staff, i think this program is headed towards greatness.
If we get the athletes we will be good on offense. At this point it's all speculation based on the Memphis spread offense. You can certainly point to a lot of big scoring games. However, when they played a really good defensive team, they had their offensive troubles too. Temple is a good example. They were 1-1 against Temple the past two years scoring 28 points in two games and only one touchdown - that's right, 7 field goals and 1 touchdown. During better days, Tech averaged over 40 points a game for several years in a row. Back then we had better athletes and maybe better coaching. Offensively (and defensively to some extent) we've had 3-4 down years. I hope we get back to being a top ten team, and in time I think we will. And I hope the spread offense is a big success. And if it is, that does not mean Beamer doesn't know offense.
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