ADVERTISEMENT

Bud the Bridesmaid

Status
Not open for further replies.
We currently have more offensive talent on the Hokie bench than half the damn top 20 offenses in college football.
That is a fantasy.
Might need to take these off:
VT%20glasses_zpsuu0etbia.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hoos19NC
That is a fantasy.
Might need to take these off:

Why is that such as fantasy?

Isaiah Ford, BuckyHodges, and Travon McMillian are almost as good a combination as any other team out there. Sure some teams have a better RB (e.g. Alabama) or WR right now, but we also have some Top 20 talent at the skill positions. Clemson's a good example, if you would argue that Gallman, Leggett, and Scott are a top 5 combo, then I don't think the three of them are that much farther ahead of our three and we should be easily be top 20.

I think it comes down to line play and QB effectiveness and I think HR's point is that if you fix some of those things, with the talent on the Hokie bench, we should be able to have a top 20 offense.
 
We currently have more offensive talent on the Hokie bench than half the damn top 20 offenses in college football.
More talent than half the top 20, and on the bench? Well then, that should make us a top 10 offense! Maybe we should start using the bench a bit more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Salemite
Whether myth or fact, the VT offense has been non-existant the past few seasons. Run up middle, punt or FG attempt. If we scored 20 points it was considered a good day, provided defense gave up 19 or less.
 
Why is that such as fantasy?

Isaiah Ford, BuckyHodges, and Travon McMillian are almost as good a combination as any other team out there. Sure some teams have a better RB (e.g. Alabama) or WR right now, but we also have some Top 20 talent at the skill positions. Clemson's a good example, if you would argue that Gallman, Leggett, and Scott are a top 5 combo, then I don't think the three of them are that much farther ahead of our three and we should be easily be top 20.

I think it comes down to line play and QB effectiveness and I think HR's point is that if you fix some of those things, with the talent on the Hokie bench, we should be able to have a top 20 offense.
We don't have too 20 talent on the field. To suggest we have it on the bench is plain silly.
 
We don't have too 20 talent on the field. To suggest we have it on the bench is plain silly.


Why dont you try posting with your head backed up with some stats instead of your heart.
Do you really think TCU,Bowling Green, Cincy, Cal, SMU, WKU, Memphis, Tulsa, Indiana, BSU and Houston have more talent than VT? Guess what...thats more than half the top 20 offenses in college football this season and VT had AS MUCH and in most cases MORE talent on their roster than all of those teams (Just like I said).

Look at Memphis QB Paxton Lynch...he wasnt ranked as high as any of our QBs. Look at that Memphis OL...NONE ranked as high as the VT OLine and they gave up only 12 sacks TOTAL on the year. The rest of that Memphis offense wasnt nowhere near as ranked like the VT talent. Thats because...like Bud does on defense at VT...Fuente implemented a SYSTEM and coached his players into proper execution.
Look at TCU. Trevone Boykin was a damn 3star recruit and threw for 7,000 yrds this season. His targets Doctson(2,654) Turpin(1,168) and Listenbe(1,196) were 2 and 3 star talents with limited offers coming out of High School.

You always want the best talent available, but you are completely dismissing the implementation of an offensive system, the coaching of that system and an emphasis on attacking on offense equally as you do on defense and special teams.
 
For many schools, it is the scheme they run. VT offense has not been designed to score TDs. But that is about to change.
 
Why dont you try posting with your head backed up with some stats instead of your heart.
Do you really think TCU,Bowling Green, Cincy, Cal, SMU, WKU, Memphis, Tulsa, Indiana, BSU and Houston have more talent than VT? Guess what...thats more than half the top 20 offenses in college football this season and VT had AS MUCH and in most cases MORE talent on their roster than all of those teams (Just like I said).

Look at Memphis QB Paxton Lynch...he wasnt ranked as high as any of our QBs. Look at that Memphis OL...NONE ranked as high as the VT OLine and they gave up only 12 sacks TOTAL on the year. The rest of that Memphis offense wasnt nowhere near as ranked like the VT talent. Thats because...like Bud does on defense at VT...Fuente implemented a SYSTEM and coached his players into proper execution.
Look at TCU. Trevone Boykin was a damn 3star recruit and threw for 7,000 yrds this season. His targets Doctson(2,654) Turpin(1,168) and Listenbe(1,196) were 2 and 3 star talents with limited offers coming out of High School.

You always want the best talent available, but you are completely dismissing the implementation of an offensive system, the coaching of that system and an emphasis on attacking on offense equally as you do on defense and special teams.
Read slowly and carefully, ok? What the poster said was this: "We currently have more offensive talent on the Hokie bench than half the damn top 20 offenses in college football."

more O-talent on our bench than 1/2 the top 20 offenses...
That is manifestly absurd. Read it again and try to remember words mean things.

It is not I posting with the heart, but you. Our talent has been down significantly. Whit knows it, Fuente knows it. They are addressing it as best they can. And please don't presume to know what I dismiss (other than silly statements like the one you are inexplicably defending, of course).
 
Read slowly and carefully, ok? What the poster said was this: "We currently have more offensive talent on the Hokie bench than half the damn top 20 offenses in college football."

more O-talent on our bench than 1/2 the top 20 offenses...
That is manifestly absurd. Read it again and try to remember words mean things.

It is not I posting with the heart, but you. Our talent has been down significantly. Whit knows it, Fuente knows it. They are addressing it as best they can. And please don't presume to know what I dismiss (other than silly statements like the one you are inexplicably defending, of course).

Your playing word judo. Hokie bench....Hokie roster...Hokie starters...you damn good and well what I meant. VT has more offensive talent than half the top 20 offenses. Which I proved by listing above. Prove me wrong with facts and stop trying to correct me with your opinion. Do I really need to go as far as show you the star power we have on offense compared to those teams listed above? Our talent is as good or better than those teams.
 
Your playing word judo. Hokie bench....Hokie roster...Hokie starters...you damn good and well what I meant. VT has more offensive talent than half the top 20 offenses. Which I proved by listing above. Prove me wrong with facts and stop trying to correct me with your opinion. Do I really need to go as far as show you the star power we have on offense compared to those teams listed above? Our talent is as good or better than those teams.
Ha! Pathetic. You are now merely changing what you (finally) see is indefensible. There is an edit feature. Just change your silly statement (presumably made out of emotion) into something we can discuss.
 
When you can show me where TCU, BG, Cincy, Cal, SMU, WKU, Memphis, Tulsa, Indiana, BSU and Houston has more talent than VT, I will get back to you. But you wont because you cant.
 
When you can show me where TCU, BG, Cincy, Cal, SMU, WKU, Memphis, Tulsa, Indiana, BSU and Houston has more talent than VT, I will get back to you. But you wont because you cant.
Again, you made the stupid comment that "We currently have more offensive talent on the Hokie bench than half the damn top 20 offenses in college football." Now that is just idiotic, and I don't blame you for somehow denying that you meant what you said. I might do the same.
 
You cant support your comment and I can so your hanging on verbage. Yawn...waiting on that proof that those teams have more talent than VT on offense.
 
LOL...Besides, If you REALLY want to go by whats litterly "ON THE BENCH" at VT, the talent (star power) is probably higher with whats on the bench than whats starting. Either way VT has as much or more talent on offense than those teams listed.

Brewer 3star QB / Lawson 4star QB
McMillan 3star RB / Williams, Coleman, McLease, Edmunds, McKenzie all 4star RBs
Ford 3star WR / Bradshaw 3star WR
Phillips 4star WR / Caleb 4star WR
Hodges 4star TE / Malleck 3star TE
Hansen 2star OL / Nijman 4star OL
Conte 3star OL / Smith 3star OL
Gallo 2star OL / Pettit 3star OL
Teller 4star OL / Clark 4star OL
McLaughlin 3star OL / Smith 3star OL
Rogers NR FB / Peeples NR FB

Its not until you see what we have and what other teams have that it hits home just how underutilized our offensive talent was and how poor our Offensive coaching was in comparison to teams who actually develope and coach up offensive players in a implemented system. Memphis for example...

Lynch 3star QB
Dorceus 5.3 2star RB
Jones 5.4 2star WR
Craft 5.7 3star WR
malone 5.8 4star WR
Gross 5.7 3star TE
Bond 5.2 2star OL
Stannard NR OL
Kuhn 5.2 2star OL
Uselton 5.3 2star OL
Fallin 5.4 2star OL

If Fuente can coach up this talent he should be able to do wonders with what Beamer is leaving in the cupboard at VT. Four 4star RBs? a couple proven WRs? What should be a first round draft pick TE? Sam Rogers? The whole damn OLine? To say our talent is down is borderline mentally retarded.
 
LOL...Besides, If you REALLY want to go by whats litterly "ON THE BENCH" at VT, the talent (star power) is probably higher with whats on the bench than whats starting. Either way VT has as much or more talent on offense than those teams listed.

Brewer 3star QB / Lawson 4star QB
McMillan 3star RB / Williams, Coleman, McLease, Edmunds, McKenzie all 4star RBs
Ford 3star WR / Bradshaw 3star WR
Phillips 4star WR / Caleb 4star WR
Hodges 4star TE / Malleck 3star TE
Hansen 2star OL / Nijman 4star OL
Conte 3star OL / Smith 3star OL
Gallo 2star OL / Pettit 3star OL
Teller 4star OL / Clark 4star OL
McLaughlin 3star OL / Smith 3star OL
Rogers NR FB / Peeples NR FB

Its not until you see what we have and what other teams have that it hits home just how underutilized our offensive talent was and how poor our Offensive coaching was in comparison to teams who actually develope and coach up offensive players in a implemented system. Memphis for example...

Lynch 3star QB
Dorceus 5.3 2star RB
Jones 5.4 2star WR
Craft 5.7 3star WR
malone 5.8 4star WR
Gross 5.7 3star TE
Bond 5.2 2star OL
Stannard NR OL
Kuhn 5.2 2star OL
Uselton 5.3 2star OL
Fallin 5.4 2star OL

If Fuente can coach up this talent he should be able to do wonders with what Beamer is leaving in the cupboard at VT. Four 4star RBs? a couple proven WRs? What should be a first round draft pick TE? Sam Rogers? The whole damn OLine? To say our talent is down is borderline mentally retarded.
I don't really get your argument, especially if you want to compare VT's star power against an AAC team? Being in the top 20 offenses has as much to do with who you play and what conference you play in as much as anything. Same for top 20 defenses, does anyone really believe Bowling Green has the 6th best defense in D1? I bet if they were in the SEC they wouldn't have the 6th best in the conference much less all of D1. Based on your argument UVA has better star power than Memphis but we are no top 20 team on offense. Compare VT's star power against the SEC or Big 10 teams, you will only better or match the bottom feeders. And we all know the star ratings don't guarantee success on the field, plenty of examples of this on every team. The first one that jumped out at me on your list is Edmunds, no way he has performed as a 4 star RB.....McMillian as a 3 star is a much better RB, not really even close. Easy to pick teams out of the top 20 and say you are better but we all know those ratings have many flaws. The eye test says VT doesn't have a top 20 offense on the field or bench and it all starts at QB. You can't tell me Brewer is even close to a top 20 QB.
 
Last edited:
I don't really get your argument, especially if you want to compare VT's star power against an AAC team? Being in the top 20 offenses has as much to do with who you play and what conference you play in as much as anything. Same for top 20 defenses, does anyone really believe Bowling Green has the 6th best defense in D1? I bet if they were in the SEC they wouldn't have the 6th best in the conference much less all of D1. Based on your argument UVA has better star power than Memphis but we are no top 20 team on offense. Compare VT's star power against the SEC or Big 10 teams, you will only better or match the bottom feeders. And we all know the star ratings don't guarantee success on the field, plenty of examples of this on every team. The first one that jumped out at me on your list is Edmunds, no way he has performed as a 4 star RB.....McMillian as a 3 star is a much better RB, not really even close. Easy to pick teams out of the top 20 and say you are better but we all know those ratings have many flaws. The eye test says VT doesn't have a top 20 offense on the field or bench and it all starts at QB. You can't tell me Brewer is even close to a top 20 QB.

Nothing is absolute but star ratings are based on potential and really what more do you have to go on from a 17-18 yr old out of High School? The issue is maximizing that players potential and putting them in a position(system or scheme) to excel and showcase their talent. Is VT a top 20 offense? HELL NO....but the potential (talent)is there for them to be based on the star rating system. Whats missing is coaching and the point Im trying to make is If a staff can coach up a lesser talent pool to maximum potential shouldnt it only seem logical for them to coach up a even better talent pool?
You use McMillan v Edmunds as who is the better RB. We all know who the better RB is because we have seen them both play the position but remember its based on potential coming out of High School and isnt absolute.If we had seen neither play at the collegiate level and all we had to go on was star ratings we would have to go by that rated potential. I give you a better example, JC Coleman was a 4star RB but had little success at VT. Well as a 185lb every down power back what the hell did you expect? Put Coleman as a scat back in a spread offense and get him the ball in open space and JC Coleman becomes a whole nother creature and likely more successful.
My whole point is, while the best talent is always wanted, VT already has plenty of offensive talent on its roster, that talent has just been under utilized and not put into position to excel. A offensive minded coach that puts an emphasis on offensive execution could do wonders with the talent pool he inherits at VT. This is especially true since his defense is already in good hands and he can focus on primarily the offense.
 
Nothing is absolute but star ratings are based on potential and really what more do you have to go on from a 17-18 yr old out of High School? The issue is maximizing that players potential and putting them in a position(system or scheme) to excel and showcase their talent. Is VT a top 20 offense? HELL NO....but the potential (talent)is there for them to be based on the star rating system. Whats missing is coaching and the point Im trying to make is If a staff can coach up a lesser talent pool to maximum potential shouldnt it only seem logical for them to coach up a even better talent pool?
You use McMillan v Edmunds as who is the better RB. We all know who the better RB is because we have seen them both play the position but remember its based on potential coming out of High School and isnt absolute.If we had seen neither play at the collegiate level and all we had to go on was star ratings we would have to go by that rated potential. I give you a better example, JC Coleman was a 4star RB but had little success at VT. Well as a 185lb every down power back what the hell did you expect? Put Coleman as a scat back in a spread offense and get him the ball in open space and JC Coleman becomes a whole nother creature and likely more successful.
My whole point is, while the best talent is always wanted, VT already has plenty of offensive talent on its roster, that talent has just been under utilized and not put into position to excel. A offensive minded coach that puts an emphasis on offensive execution could do wonders with the talent pool he inherits at VT. This is especially true since his defense is already in good hands and he can focus on primarily the offense.
Thanks for explaining your thought process.....if Fuentes can score with Bud on D, VT could be a team to reckon with. It will be interesting to watch the recruiting at VT going forward, can Fuentes bring in more star power? Will Bud get off his butt and recruit star power to his defense. Where will VT be in 4 years? Changing of coaches can go 2 ways, which way will VT go......
 
It will be interesting to see If those posters who think Frank Beamer knew offense will feel the same way after a season or two under Fuente. Im sorry but offense should be more than 3 runs and a punt or a duel threat QB running around trying to make plays with his feet. With the new coaching staff and retained coaching staff, i think this program is headed towards greatness.
This is a typical statement that questions somthing that someone else posts without thinking. I said Frank understands offense. You are writing about Fuente's system. This is idiotic.
Also you have done exactly nothing to prove anything that Salemate has posted wrong. Posting a list of players and stars means nothing as to final proof of superiority. Ga Tech had a great season last year running the option. Another system that will work if it's done right.
As far as Fuente stepping in and running a good offense next year I think he will. It may take a while to get it going but I have faith that he will.
 
I've got $100 on VT having more talent (star rating wise) than half the top 20 offenses in college football. Not sure how that's even debatable.

I also agree with Hoos19; the biggest reason those teams are ranked so high offensively with less talent is because they are playing the majority of their games against non-p5 talent.

However, I get Rondo's point. Fuente is gonna blow it up here with our talent level and his having an actual grasp on what it takes to run a high powered offense. The offensive system and coaching are important to me. They were to Babcock as well.

If Beamer was so offensively intellectual, by all means please explain to me the hiring of Loeffler. (and no "he fits the system"......what system? the having weak offense system?)

Stop with the name calling please. No need for that. We just got blessed all around our football team. Can't we be positive about it and respect one another as Hokies?

There might be things yall disagree about, but overall you'd have to be a really negative person to not feel good about the potential of this new system/team/coaches, and the future of VT football I felt good about Lawson developing under Fuente and being our guy next year. Now I don't think he'll even play next year. Things are looking pretty dang good.....

Personal insults and name calling will get your post deleted.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
ADVERTISEMENT